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The UK Should Leave the European Union

Many argue that the European Union (EU) has become an unaccountable, undemocratic federation with too many powers. Is it wrong that EU directives (EU law) supersedes British law? Is it right to have free labour movements between 27 states when the UK is suffering a recession?

All the Yes points:

  1. Reintroduce Full Powers Back to Westminster
  2. EU is a Drain on British Economy
  3. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable
  4. We need to co-operate against global crime and terror
  5. The representatives that we elect should not be able to give the UK away
  6. I am not a European, I am an Englishman, I am entitled to a vote on this.
  7. immigration
  8. Free trade still likely with EFTA, EEC or individual treaties.
  9. Hypocrisy towards other EU states.
  10. British taxpayers are forced to bail out other European countries rather than receive goods and services
  11. TRADE
  12. No chance of changing from the Pound to the Euro
  13. Jobs being given to british people
  14. one point that is always not mentioned is the EU is part of the New World Order
  15. Economical and political ties

All the No points:

  1. EU is a Regional Security Guarantor
  2. Free Market
  3. TNCs would leave
  4. Trade
  5. the eu all together
  6. Students will have to pay British tuition fees

Reintroduce Full Powers Back to Westminster

Yes because…

Although the EU has a parliament, a single state’s objection to a new piece of legislation would make no difference if the other 26 states were in favour of it.

Nation states no longer get a veto when deciding on new legislation. New legislation is put through either by consensus among the members, or by qualified majority voting. Thus countries cannot block legislation they strongly disagree with.

Essentially the EU is too great a body to legislate and the power should be handed back to Westminster.

No because…

The EU does not regularly legislate on minor issues that would adversely affect individual nations, but rather issues of common trade or foreign policy. To this end, although it is indeed true that individual member states do not have as great a say and are potentially unable to veto legislation, this should not be a problem.

Also, the idea that the EU is too ‘large’ a body to have a common parliament is untenable when you consider that other large geographical territories with different cultural ‘zones’ such as Canada, India and Russia have a single federal parliament.

EU is a Drain on British Economy

Yes because…

The EU is arguably a drain on the British economy. A huge amount of money given to the EU is allocated to bureaucracy and wasteful spending such as the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). In 2006, a whopping 45% EU spending went towards the CAP, [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4407792.stm#howmuch]].

To put this in perspective, that’s almost half EU spending allocated towards an industry that employs only 5% EU citizens and generates 1.6% GDP [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4407792.stm#howmuch]].

This is truly unneccessary and is unequally distributed, France reportedly benefitting immensely, while countries with very little agricultural sectors seeing few benefits, and yet expected to foot the bill for this wasteful policy.

No because…

More than 80% of the EU budget is spent by the member states.[[http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/publications/financial_pub/pub_eu_spending_en.pdf]]. In effect, the EU acts like a central government does, redistributing from the richer areas to the poorer areas within the EU. We don’t have a problem with rich London bankers paying a bit more to help the Welsh Valleys so why is helping poorer areas within EU member states any different?

Although the EU does cost Britain money, it is simply because it is a richer country. The amounts of money that are put in by member states is proportional to their wealth.

The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable

Yes because…

The European Union is run by unelected, unaccountable elites whose power is vast. They often bring in legislation that has not been voted on in our national parliament, yet supercedes our own laws that do pass through such democratic processes.

“The common denominator between national and multi-level governing procedures is that each is tasked with coordinating opinion, and ultimately policy and resources, into a common pool. Power and influence within the European Union structures are divided, although somewhat disparately, between the European Parliament (EP), the Council of Ministers and the Commission. These bodies are designed to check and balance one another. In member states, citizens have the opportunity to influence national policy making through their elected officials. In the EU’s multi-tiered system, the closest a citizen comes to impacting a policy decision is through their elected representative to the European Parliament.” [[http://www.eumap.org/journal/features/2005/demodef/mitchell]]

No because…

The EU is continually strengthening its structure to be democratic and accountable. MEPs are elected regionally within member states which is very much a democratic process. Further to this, MEPs vote on new legislation and represent their constituency and national party in their voting patterns. Deciding on important legislation through a qualified voting system also helps to illustrate the highly democratic nature of the European Council .

Although there is a perceived or actual ‘democratic deficit’ within the EU, EU structures are continually being reformed in order to better reflect the wishes of their stakeholders – the EU citizens themselves.

We need to co-operate against global crime and terror

Yes because…

The main advantage of Europol is that it enables criminals that cross borders to be tracked and arrested easily by a multinational force. However, if is considered that Britain is an island, the likelihood of criminals crossing our borders is quite low, thus rendering the major advantage of Europol somewhat irrelevant.

If the aims of the UK are to fight global terror then surely it would be of greater benefit to strengthen relations with the United States where there is a far stronger focus on tackling this issue.

No because…

We need to co-operate to fight the increasingly global threat of crime and violence. Europol is an effective multinational police and security force and leaving Europe would deprive us of its benefits.

The representatives that we elect should not be able to give the UK away

Yes because…

Britain must remain its own country. Being a part of the EU threatens national identity and the UK economy amongst other things. Britain does not need to rely on its European neighbours in order to succeed.

No because…

Britian joined the European Economic Community in 1973, after learning that trade with the Commonwealth was not as lucrative as originally thought. The application was made in 1961 by the Conservative Prime Minister Harold MacMillan. The main reason for Britain joining the EU was for the economic benefits, so obviously it shows that in the age of globalisation and increased competitiveness, Britain cannot act alone.

I am not a European, I am an Englishman, I am entitled to a vote on this.

Yes because…

In the Labour Party manifesto I was promised a referendum by Tony Blair, this was reneged upon and I have been forced into this position by lies and subterfuge by the present Labour party and many other lying cheating politicians over the years, I do not believe that Gordon Brown had the legal right to sign us all up to being members of the EU by voting for the Lisbon treaty in our names when we had not been given the promised Referendum, I see the whole exercise as one giant confidence trick and I will never accept it.

No because…

The EU is derived from a Nazi plan about how to manage Europe after they had captured it, so the ideology that drives it that nobody actually knows about in the UK means you are now European, which is exactly what is happening, the Lisbon treaty overrules the UK’s constitution rendering it useless along with Westminster, it’s more a question of time before everything in Europe is centralized and the same and Brussels admits that there is no need for Westminster to exist any more. We are probably about ten years away from that point but British people are stupid naive and listen to the BBC when it tells them how we don’t really loose £100000000000 of wealth each year and we all are in this together etc. I am British myself so don’t take offence to that because it’s true. They are collecting their own taxes now. So yes, you’re not an Englishman. You’re a European.


Yes because…

Since joining teh EU, especially in the more recent years the amount of immigrants from the EU somewhere around 200,000, with roughly 1/3 of those people coming over for work related reasons.

Not only that but also in terms of asylum seekers or nationals who are being funnelled here by other EU states (France) who do not want to deal with these people themselves.

Additional to this, in recent years legislation was passed that the UK hospital system would be fully open for other EU members. This is a system which costs the UK billions per year, with a fair potion of this money being spent on foreigners who have paid little to no money to make use of the facilities. This has resulted not only in an increased cost to us, having to pay for additional doctors and nurse which we simply do not have. But has also causes increased waiting times for the British citizens who have paid to keep this service running.

Not only this, but the amount of immigration has resulted in a loss of national identity, with traditional British values being relegated to second place while we instead focus on catering to the needs of foreign groups and their own religions and beliefs.

No because…

What are these “British values” you speak of… is tolerance not a “British value”? The issue of immigration is one perhaps too ‘British’, as to the point where almost the first port of call to make when there are ills of the society is that its the blinking foreigners. You see Britain has a secret weapon, its called the Tier-4 visa. Every year we see British born students competing at the level of Second and Third world countries, so why is it that Britain can still retain its’ Royal Society, its lead in Science, Economy, and industry, while its next generation are being dummed up by watching ‘Big Brother’ or TV soap operas, why hasn’t the British economy or industry collapsed ? That’s because of immigrants, who come to this country to study because it leads so much that their own countries haven’t got the capablility of teaching them. British education system is drawing more and more students to its country and in turn making them the business leaders of tomorrow contributing to taxes, because their own countries haven’t even GOT that industry and has to play with the rules of the UK. Entire industries have been made on the shoulders of immigrants, from the low end of income to the high end of income. The British always say the foreigners are stealing our jobs, but never asks why they can ? Cut throat workwages ? Or is it that the foreigners don’t have the British 9-5 attitude where they start work at 10 and finish at 4-4:30 so that they can get home at 5 ? Now you say immigrants are costing the British billions. But may I remind you that on average, the working immigrant pays more tax per head that the British ? Yes, there are immigrants who are doing benefit fraud, but how about the British people who live on benefit simply because they can’t be bothered ? They go on to bring up children with the same attitude and so forth. So, when you say foreigners are benefit-stealing, whlist the law-abiding ones are paying more tax and when Britain hasn’t sorted its own people’s problems yet. One begs the question ? Which does more harm ? Capping immigrants so that no more professionals or potential professional come to this country that basically builds it ? Or acutally reforming your own laws so that benefit-stealers don’t get to do what they do ?

Free trade still likely with EFTA, EEC or individual treaties.

Yes because…

There are many ways in which the UK could maintain its free trade with Europe – Switzerland and Norway have free trade with the EU but are not members. The UK imports more from EU member states than it exports to them, so they would be substantially harming their own economies if they imposed tariffs.

No because…

Free trade still are likely as much as a student with a 3rd degree and a bad attitude is still likely to get a job, just a really rubbish one. The countries you listed up there, none of the them has the same attitude that Britain does, which is ‘contribute the least and expect the greatest return, while complaining if everyone in the sandbox is agreeing to something you don’t like’. You can go on and say there are mechanisms that allow Britain to join the EFTA, EEC, etc., but its the same as a joblot, there is nothing to stop you applying but it doesn’t mean you’ll get in ! Especially when Britain hasn’t got anything that’s special to offer, since the ‘special touch’ Britain has is because its’ a EU member.

Hypocrisy towards other EU states.

Yes because…

In for a penny in for a pound .. or not…

The UK chose not to commit to the single currency and has been treating the EU like a restaurant menu .

The UK should do the decent thing and leave. It’s too late to commit fully , you had your chances , you blew it.

When it comes to making contracts for business ventures , making allowances for education abroad , businesses etc have been making allowances and have been including UK businesses . That general way of thinking should just change. Polish and other eastern European labor is a lot cheaper for western European countries .

As a citizen of a European state that’s been in 100% since the start I say the British can hide their demands where the sun fails to shine and simply bugger off.

Point: The people from the EU member states don’t want someone on the side of the pool , 1 foot in the water , making demands .

No because…

AT least the british are open about their position – everyone knows they are very reluctant and only want to European project to go so far. There are other nations in Europe who think similarly (generally to a lesser extent) but their governments drag them along. The british position is probably therefore more ‘honest’ even if we dont like what it is.

How many states will reject this new federalism when (if) it is put to the electorate?

Of course this wholly ignores that Europe may ultimately work better as a restaurant menu – the thing the british have finally accepted is that if this is to happen it has to be a multi-speed Europe rather than Britain getting its opt outs and still keeping influence on everything else.

British taxpayers are forced to bail out other European countries rather than receive goods and services

Yes because…

Although Britain is in a bit of a bad state as it is, British taxes are still being used to give other European governments huge amounts of money. Unemployment is up and our country appears to be coasting, desperately avoiding a double dip recession. If we could withdraw Britain from the EU, become self-sufficient and start trade routes with other countries we could be so much better. Instead, our taxpayers money is being used to pay for other Europeans rather than British nationals. It is depriving British people of work and advantages which they ought to have.

No because…

Even if not in the EU Britain would probably take part in bail outs in Europe (though to a lesser extent) particularly when those bail outs involve IMF money.

Not being a member of the European Union would not change the fact that the EU is Britain’s closest trading partner and chaos in Europe would have a negative impact , better to help reduce that chaos.


Yes because…

It is a lie that we will not trade if we leave the EU… We have HUGE trading partners outside the EU.

They tell us this so we are afraid to “Go it alone”..we should get out. We are being robbed HOURLY!!

No because…

Huge it may be but by comparison to the size of these countries it is tiny when compared to our trade with states in the EU “In 2011, 8.7% of UK exports went to the Brics, compared with 6% to Ireland.”[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17690854]] Then consider that Ireland has a population of 6million compared to the combined BRIC population of 2.8 billion…. perhaps geography matters after-all!

No chance of changing from the Pound to the Euro

Yes because…

There was talks of Britian becoming part of the new monetary change making us use Euro instead of the BRITISH pound

No because…

At the moment this is not a reason for leaving as at the moment there is no chance of a change from the pound to the Euro – indeed we dont even know if the Euro will survive.

Jobs being given to british people

Yes because…

If we pull out of EU the British public will have more of a chance of getting jobs. When the British earn we will then start spending in our economy. Most EU nationals send their money home to be spent in their economy so this is definitely not helping the UK! The only question for me though is what would happen to the EU people already here? If pensioners living in Spain etc are forced to leave and return to the UK, then the pensions that are paid to them(by the UK) would then be spent in the UK and not in Spain, thus redistributed back in the country. It would not be in the EUs interest to return pensioners back to the UK.

No because…

Please explain how this would be the case. We are unlikely to suddenly chuck out everyone currently working here who are from overseas. Many of them do jobs we dont want or dont have the skills for and finally there is likely to be some tit for tat if we do kick out EU nationals – there are a lot of Britons living and working in Europe (even worse a lot of them are pensioners which would mean an added burden to the economy rather than a productive gain).

one point that is always not mentioned is the EU is part of the New World Order

Yes because…

It is no coincidence that all the banks “jumped ship” at once…. nor that the peoples are being starved into the ground as borders are opened for all.

It is no coincidence that hundreds of concentration camps are being built in American Desert areas.

It is no coincidence that Mexico, USA and Canada are trying to for the Americo union with an “Americo” coin.

It is no coincidence either that the EU is trying to remove Each countries rights underits own constitution.



They have done this in preparation fro the NWO………………. Google the New World Order” and learn.
The one point that matters above all is not spoken of at all!

No because…

Where is the actual problem with unifying planet Earth ? A world in order where wars as stopped and more money can be channelled into other things like science and techonology. Isn’t that the lesser of two evils ?

Economical and political ties

Yes because…

The developing countries colloquially known as the BRIC nations (Brasil, Russia, India and China), provide British businesses and entrepreneurs with an unparalleled opportunity to grow into a somewhat untapped emerging markets. This opportunity is indeed limited by the clutch of Brussels. The belief that staying with the EU is vital to the UK economy is a narrow minded approach, when considering the more holistic trading opportunities that an EU free UK will have to provide. Removing ourselves from the EU would allow us to make the independent decisions necessary to improve the UK’s bi-lateral trade with the BRIC countries and other nations, which as a consequence will act to bolster the political ties and relations we share with these countries whom we engage in trade with. In addition to the aforementioned one can say that due to the UK’s geographical proximity to Europe, trade with the countries within the EU will continue to be a vital and significant contributor to the UK economy. In Layman’s terms should the UK leave the EU, we would have greater flexibility in deciding which countries we engage with both politically and economically. If this opportunity itself is nurtured and utilized appropriately by the Government, leaving the EU may mark the start of the Golden Age of the British economy.

No because…

EU is a Regional Security Guarantor

No because…

The original aims of the EU’s predecessor, The European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), formally established in 1951, were outlined by French French foreign minister Robert Schuman on 9 May 1950 as to ‘make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible.’ Thus far, no member states have gone to war with one another, making the original aims of lasting peace truly successful.

Many argue that now EU member states are economically and politically mutually cooperative to such a high degree that it renders war between member states unfeasible.

The EU also acts as a major actor and negotiator for important international treaties and conventions, giving it more weight than 27 individual states would. The EU is involved in negotiations to ensure better international governance and norms exist in the international community and is able to act strongly in support of mutual interests.

The EU tackles such important security issues internationally, and has strategies for tackling weapons of mass destruction (WMD), combatting illegal accumulation and trafficking of light weapons, and many other defence- and security-related issues.

Yes because…

Although it is true that the initial aims of the community were to aid regional security, now that the bonds of trade and co-operation have been established we no longer need to be an official part of that union to retain the peace and goodwill.

Additionally the ‘special relationship’ between Britain and the U.S means that we are not as dependent upon EU security as we could be an thus we are no longer tied to the union for reasons of protection.

Edit: The peace in Europe has nothing to do with the EU, once people realise it’s only going to cause more violence at least because of the ideologically corrupt power hungry idea that Europe can become the next world superpower, hence Germany’s irrational support. Britons don’t want that and neither did the millions of us who died to stop it.

Free Market

No because…

EU gives businesses access to 480 Million consumers, which is fantastic for our business sector and makes us more prosperous.

The free market has incresed consumer choice and goods are no longer delayed in customs by heavy paper work, making delivery times shorter, and allowing manufacturers to save money, thus bringing down the price for consumers.

The free market has been especially beneficial to the service industry, who find have found it relatively easy to access a huge portion of new customers with relative ease.

Yes because…

Genial trade relations should continue even if we left the EU, however, “if there were genuine concern about the EU pursuing discriminatory trade policies against the UK, then the UK could also join NAFTA to create countervailing power in the event of traded disputes. NAFTA allows each member to pursue its own trade agenda, provided it allows other NAFTA members free access in agreed trade areas. It would therefore be entirely consistent with the UK’s free trade policy.”[[Minford, Mahambare and Nowell 2006]]

TNCs would leave

No because…

Trans-national coorporations (TNCs) are comapnies that are based in at least two or more countries. A number of these TNCs are based in Britain such as the Nissan factory found in Sunderland. The reason these TNCs are here in the UK is because they are allowed free export throughout the EU due to the free market. This means that if we were to pull out of the EU, these companies would leave and it is estimated that 3 million people would become unemployed

Yes because…

Trans-national corporations can still be have a presence in the UK as in Switzerland and Norway with the UK being an EU member. Indeed were the UK to leave then the British government would be in a position to attract inward investment and create jobs which it can not do inside the ever restrictive EU legislative framework.


No because…

So many of our imports and exports come from the EU our economy if anything is improved by being apart of the EU. The EU is a source of man power. Polish builders come from the EU, our french Chefs come from the EU. We need the EU to fill so many of our jobs in this country without being apart of the EU it will make it harder to trade with the EU and to import people if you like.

Yes because…

Trade is not a function of EU membership. Indeed Switzerland and Norway have no problem trading with the EU. membership of the The European Economic Area is what is required. Britain could leave teh EU, saved billions, and still trade equally as well. The EU is not about trade, it is about a centralised federal government.

the eu all together

No because…

this is a total muck up we our brain washed by politicans telling us this and that the world is a global trading point not just in the e u we pour billions of our tax paying money into this for what? but nobody ever wants to ever talk about this issue the norwegians and swiss have got very strong economies without being in this this mess look how well tony blair and neil kinnock our doing aswell out of this to?

Yes because…

It’s nothing more than a gravy train for the corrupt and greedy. It’s role is not to unite but to dominate,overrule and suppress.

Students will have to pay British tuition fees

No because…

British students may have to pay up to £9,000 a year next year for tuition. In most EU countries it is either cheaper, or in Denmark’s case, free. The Danes are only letting Brits study there because Britain is in the EU. The the issue of the meal ticket. Where is the problem with that as long as they pay their taxes ? And the British didn’t do that ? India, Canada, Australia, New Zeland, Hong Kong, Jamaica. Where do you think that British got their riches from ? Aberdeenshire ? Lake district ?

Yes because…

Surely it would be better for the British to gain qualifications in the UK. The fees have most likely gone up again because the British Public are not spending in the UK. England used to be a rich country and we used to be admired for our skills and heritage. Now all the EU countries treat the UK as a meal ticket for their families in their home countries. Get us out of the EU fast. If people desperately want to pay cheaper tuition fees then maybe everywhere should have a visa system rather than letting people move countries just because they think they’re going to get it easier.

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Trevor Bearman
6 years ago

its not about how many EU nationals work in the UK or how many Brit’s work in the EU
its about count ability for me. originally it was for free trade agreement and remember Britain at that time had a good commonwealth agreement. and we dropped New Zealand, Australia and other countries that were our allies in the mire, when we joined the EU. Overnight Anchor butter and cheap New Zealand Lamb disappeared from the supermarkets.

Where are the vast amounts of money going,where are the accounts for running of the EU, which countries are getting my hard earned money, figures to tell where the EU budget has been spent on,who,s getting what, wages and expenses.who’ deciding my fate by making stupid laws. who elected them

We already have to many politicians in our country with the village idiots,then the local townies. then the county council, then the undesirables of the houses parliament, then the louts in the Lords who got there because daddy new someone and up until we leave the freeloaders that are called MEPs. all these people will give you a good reason why they do it apart from the true reason . that they make a lot of money out of it for doing very little. and that is true for the EU.

7 years ago

The EU and its Brussels Institutions do not want the UK to leave Europe in “Brexit2 becuse it will mean the Germans and other will have to stump up the shortfall after the UK leaves. Also, the EU Brussels Politburo will have to become more authoritarian to head off more Euroscepticism that has been sweeping around Europe, years before the UK deiced to “Brexit”.

The EU has to become more ‘Soviet nd Stalineque’ to block ny further mutiny in the rnks. As it is, the EU has sown the seeds of its own destruction years ago. The first to go will be Greece falling out of the Eurozone, then the dominoes will flr – possibly but not inevitably.

Nathan Lyons
7 years ago

How could I ever feel in touch with British politics, when our own government is held to account on its own BRITISH affairs, on the yes you can or no you cannot by the Germans. Our proud ancestors thought and won 2 wars to make BRITAIN great and stay out the Germans NWO. Get out of the ship , the EU is a sinking ship. Bring back our rules to Westminster, the world is ours to prosper once again.

Mr ROY H...
7 years ago

The quicker the better we leave the EU so that we can put our own youth back to work and give them the opportunity for an apprenticeship to train as a tradesman and give them a secure future, along with teachers and nurses instead of robbing countries of their talent, I know many youths disillusioned at the fact of 27 other countries unemployed people takeing jobs including part time jobs they want and can do…….
Lets start and get some structure back in England by getting rid of the EU shackles…………

a Jensen
7 years ago

I think that they should leave after they voted out to reclaim independence and democracy. And to have to control of the borders. The EU has ruined Europe and North America. With its corrupt politics and open borders policy.

jimmy johnson
7 years ago

I want to leave The European Union so my children can have a future in there own country when the other five countries join the European Union our children won’t have any kind of future with 90 million people eligible to come here are schools will be over crowded so our children’s education will suffer the NHS can’t cope now have been waiting five months for a hospital appointment imagine how long we will wait when millions more people come to our country our children won’t be able to find work god help our children if they ever need a council house they would have all been taken give our children some kind of a future vote to leave the European Union

7 years ago

Briton will be better off out of the EU, though initially it will be hard for a couple of years. However, staying in the EU will be a worse fate as the EU leaders tighten their grip on all the countries within the EU all the citizens in these countries will become slaved to debt and tyranny. They will be held in bondage and milked for every penny they earn to pay off the rising debt the EU imposes on them and future generations. The EU represents a slow and hideous death to every European country, their citizens and culture. If you pull out now you will be on your feet and thriving within a couple of years whilst the EU countries will fall into chaos and poverty.

7 years ago

1) We don’t even know what most of the parties that are voting on European stuff stand for – how democratic is that? 13% is from UK, the rest from Europe with manifestos and agendas we don’t know about. The rise of the Far Right across Europe is a fact – UKIP themselves represent the largest party from the UK – do you want these kinds of parties voting on decisions that affect us?
2) If you’re OUT, you don’t necessarily believe everything the OUT campaign are saying (and they are saying some rubbish). Just like if you are IN you don’t necessarily believe that there will be World War 3 if we leave. We only have one group “representing” our view – and we had no choice in who it was – I vote out, I am not voting for Nigel Farage etc
3) Forget the money, even if we have to pay the same net amount to stay part of the free trade area, we won’t gain anything financially (from EU) but we won’t lose anything either. They’re going to refuse that kind of money?
4) Forget the money – some things are more important – like do you feel in control of your life? No wonder we have voter fatigue, all these different layers of government and all blaming each other for their shortcomings. Who actually knows who is responsible when something goes wrong? And really I just want to vote once or twice for people to sort out things that need sorting out, not micro voting on every small detail. Local government blames central government for lack of funding, national governments blame EU for inability to do certain things. You just don’t know who is accountable for what.
5) Being OUT does not mean we won’t collaborate on a whole bunch of important topics like environment, migration etc. Unless they throw their toys out of the pram – but then whose fault would that be?
6) Whatever the disputed levels of migration are this year and last year, the fact is it could be 5 times that next year or the one after that and there is nothing we can do about it. Net migration has been rising. Immigration is great – in manageable numbers. Governments cannot plan macroeconomically large infrastructure projects (5-10 years) like schools, hospitals, roads etc with such large movements of people
7) Whatever the reason for shortage of housing, long waiting lists (government, immigration, old people – who knows), the simple fact is that adding another 300000 people is not going to help! Trains don’t get longer, platforms don’t get wider, roads in general don’t get more lanes (not soon enough anyway) and we can’t afford more teachers, nurses etc as we are already in debt and are cutting back to pay for the excesses of previous years.

9 years ago

As much as I like the idea of Europe United, the practice has been awful. Awful for jobs, awful for money/debt, awful for democracy and awful for politics.
Britain should leave for many reasons. To take control of our own affairs, to be able to negotiate and strike our own trade agreements, to save £55million a day, to have the right to pick and choose who comes to live here and to ensure our children grow up in a democracy, we have to leave the EU.
I know many will disagree, thats fine, I use to myself, but then I asked would we join? Were we not a member today, would we wish to join? Would Canada join? Would Japan join? I dont think so. I dont think any country in a good ecvonomic position would join the EU, let alone the Euro.
Enough is enough for me. The only thing that would make me happy with British membership is if we are given avreferendum and we democratically choose to stay, only then will I accept our membership as legitimate

10 years ago

The bleeding hearts
brigade that want Britain to stay in the EU
are simply following their
own agenda to have a Nationalistic Britain absorbed into greater Europe and so
disappear from the pages of history.

We Britons have always
rejected the idea that we should be led by either the French or the Germans as
we currently are through the EU.
France sits back in true
De Gaulle style lecturing on how Britain should behave because it still resents
the history between us. Germany on the other hand is simply waiting in the
wings for Britain to disappear.
This whole aspect of a united
Europe is one which essentially wants to see Britain emasculated and no longer
able to wield a large stick over both France and Germany.
The EU is not set up for
trading but is rather a grandiose plan to remove the UK and destroy its
national identity and hence its ability to influence world decisions.

10 years ago

The Independent has a an interesting take. Most of the NOs on this site just seem afraid whereas the YESes seem confident. However Ben Chu presents a more reasoned argument for staying in the EU. One argument I have read on another website accuses David Cameron of storming out of and not signing a trade agreement. Unfortunately for the stay camp this does them no good. If someone snipes at their opponent like that I instinctively don’t trust their opinion.

If you are on the fence, not decided yet, and want a strong argument as to why we should stay in the EU go to


11 years ago

All those people wanting Britain to leave Europe are very selfish. What about brits who live abroad? we would lose our right to live and move freely. It would be more difficult work wise as brits in, for example France, would then need a work permit. It would mean so much paper work and waiting just to get hold of one!

7 years ago
Reply to  michele

I cannot believe you have just stated those who want to leave are selfish…. OMG….then your text is ME ME AND ME again… I cannot believe you can use such a feeble excuse, its no wonder we are in such a mess… Just because it would be a bit more paperwork for you…. SHAME ON YOU… Your comment is so typical of someone who hasn’t got a clue and of course the fact your worried about the paperwork.. I’ll leave my email for you, so someone can help you fill it all out, like loads of people HAVE done before this…. I still can’t get over this, I am scared of people like you that can put a bit of paperwork above security and issues of democracy… Yep for sure apply here, I am sure someone will give you a job, especially if they are doing something wrong and need a wally who doesn’t understand anything to oversee that all is correct….SHAME ON YOU

7 years ago
Reply to  michele

Surely the selfish people are those who chose to vote against Britain being given back the opportunity to take full responsibility for it’s future and that of all who live here simply because some individuals may need to complete a bit of paperwork and wait a little while to obtain a work permit to work in the EU.

Why do some people appear blind to the fact that this is a fantastic new beginning for us – we can now nurture Britain into becoming a country we are proud of, happy to live in and pleased to share with a realistic number of immigrants, thus allowing our green and pleasant land to remain just that – for all people fortunate enough to live here and visit our wonderful country.

I look forward with excitement to seeing Britain flourish; to building new relationships and trade agreements with people everywhere, to creating more productive jobs in farming and industry within Britain so we become wealthier and more self-reliant, to supporting creative and sporting talent to add to the well-being of all British people, to encouraging British graduates to stay in Britain to benefit our country, the NHS and our schools and colleges.

Brexit gives us, our children and grand-children a future we can together develop to benefit our unique population and unique situation. We are a strong country, strong people with a strong history – surely we can work together to make Britain great for us now and in the future. Let’s be positive, stop moaning and doubting and relish the way forward.

11 years ago

It’s unrealistic to talk about wars and free trade.
We should leave the EU because it is too big, undemocratic and is eroding our ability to govern ourselves as we would like
We are capable of running our country and maintaining good friendly relationships with others and don’t let the scare mongeres tell you we can’t.

10 years ago
Reply to  was

Bigger are all the bric countries, the usa, australia. They are also not homogenous, often undemocratic. The uk is also too big and undemocratic. Why else would scotland, wales etc seek autonomy or even independence. Maybe should we go back to the old greek city states?

11 years ago

I believe we should leave the EU The EU citizens are a drain on the economy and now the UK seems to be overrun and struggling with a lot of problems unemployment and debt being right up there, there is a big issue to do with overcrowding and a very sharp rise in eastern Europeans which can sometimes be a problem, and yes I understand we will lose a huge amount of income generated by EU visitors and workers and that they do take up the low paid jobs that the British doesn’t want to do but the cost to the country and benefit system is huge, and the lack of housing for actual British people is ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it seems they benefit more than us if you look at it from all sides, because lets be honest how many people from the UK will go to travel and work in certain countries like Poland and the Ukraine? We do not all have to agree but the problem will still remain if a definite and well thought out decision is not made

10 years ago
Reply to  007jewel

This is the typical, uninformed and egoistical viewpoint which drives this debate within the uk. Slogans and not facts are drivers here. If you brits keep up this debate on this low intellectual level, aiming for the gut feelings, you problably will leave the eu and find out the real facts and positions afterwards, the hard way. Oh, and by the way, those referring to norway and switzerland forget a little detail. All trade regulations and standards are set by the eu. So, if you want that position, you get free trade but no say in the way it is set up.

Elena Deveraux
11 years ago

The EU manages to remain democratic whilst distancing itself from party politics. Whereas individual parties are subject to a certain extent to their popularity, EU legislation is based upon science and statistics. It can make informed decisions based on what is best for the most people. A good example of this is the EU’s environmental legislation (e.g. the Habitats Directive, Agri-Environmental schemes). If UK parties (particularly the conservatives) were not held accountable to the EU Directives with regards to the environment and biodiversity, the impacts could be catastophic. The EU’s distance in this case reduces the “Not In My Back Yard” or NIMBY effect, particularly with regards to renewable energy sources, and allows legislation to reflect scientific evidence and projected future demands and scenarios, rather than the subjective views of the ignorant but opinionated. I understand the patriotic frenzy the Mail has stirred us into. We are a proud nation with a rich history and a culture that should be preserved. However, we don’t have an empire anymore. We are just a small island and without the EU to back us up in the increasingly competitive global market, I fear we will become the equivalent of a small child stomping its feet and trying to make the grown-ups (USA, China, India) listen to us. As a part of the EU, we are a powerful, influential member state of powerful, influential body, but separated from the EU? I personally would rather stay and have a say in global politics than leave and risk exclusion.

John Smith
9 years ago
Reply to  Elena Deveraux

You do not risk exclusion. If Britain left the EU we would have a greater impact as we would have a single, sharp and self-interested voice. We would also reduce the clought of the EU itself and they would no longer be the world’s largest economy. The EU in fact makes us a less competitive market as we are subject to thousands of unnecessary regulations on our manufacturing, energy, food(shapes of bananas), environment and even tractor seats (WTF WTF lololol how pathetic). WE could also make better immigration policy allowing growth and greater relations of the British Commonwealth.

Voice of Europa
11 years ago

10 major reasons why Britain is Not ‘European’ and does not belong in the EU

1. Britain refuses to join the Schengen Area
2. Britain refuses to join the Eurozone
3. Britain refuses to adopt the metric system,
and insists on keeping it’s anachronistic imperial system
of inches, feet, yards, miles, pints, quarts, gallons and stone.
4. British mains electricity is 240 volt and not 230 volt as is standard in Europe
5. British electric mains plugs and sockets are UK standard
and not European standard, requiring adapters for european appliances.
6. British cars are righthand drive
7. British roads use lefthand traffic
8. Britain is an imperialist, nationalistic monarchy with no European self identity
9. Britain is being used by the USA to impose an American agenda in Europe
10. Britain is an Island unto itself

There is virtually no possibility of change on any of these points.
Britain clearly wants no part of a Supranational Europe.
Most Europeans agree that Britain must either change all 10 of these points
and become 100% European or leave the European Union.

11 years ago

Britain refuses to join the Eurozone: The UK set strict economic conditions to test whether joining the Eurozone would be in our economic interest, they failed to be met as our economies are to divergent with the rest of the EU. Maybe if other states had also been as stringent the current issues in Greece, Italy, Ireland, and Spain wouldn’t have been as serious.

Britain refuses to adopt the metric system: in all except the use of miles as apposed to KM its almost universal that all weights and measures must be displayed in metric, and most people function in Metric apart from in their own height and weight measurements (who knows why)

British roads use lefthand traffic: as did the rest of Europe until the French revolution and Napoleons conquests. Why should the UK change?

Britain is an imperialist, nationalistic monarchy with no European self identity: we have a European identity and a self identity, thats why we constantly have this debate when they conflict. The UK has always had a massive influence on the rest of Europe, and likewise been influenced by it.

You forgot to mention that we don’t use European shoe sizes – that surely must be a huge bone on contention for the other member states as well.

11 years ago

please, leave the EU.. The Eu can then stop paying you for being inside. The Eu can stop being buillied by the UK in all matters, The EU can still get a common market and you’ll go back to being an island.. but with no empire, and no jobs, and no raw materials, and no investors since there’s really nothing to invest in

11 years ago
Reply to  letterman

EU paying us for being inside? we give more money to the EU than we receive

European citizen
10 years ago
Reply to  noswad

The UK pays a lot less then it actually should pay. The discussion about the UK/EU is actually pretty good, since many Europeans are waking up to the fact, that they’ve been had by the UK.
We want a renegotiation of contracts, so the UK (at least) pays their due share !! Since the EU doesn’t need (and if this goes any further – WANT) the UK in any way.

If the UK wants to stay in the EU there will have to be some mayor changes made, or you probably won’t have to vote on anything, since you’ll be voted out of the EU.

11 years ago

I believe there are far more british people living and working in EU countries, or who have retired there, than there are EU nationals living in this country. That’s a whole lot of pensions we’re going to have to start offering, and a huge amount of people who will have their homes torn from under them and their businesses closed. Who pays to rehouse? Also, trade is going to be more expensive, so the goods we’ve become used to will double in price (maybe even more). In a country where many are living in poverty, is that really a solution?

John Smith
9 years ago
Reply to  David McCooey

Then your belief is just completely wrong? You can’t believe or not believe a figure. It is not open to interpretation, it just is what it is. There are many more people living in the UK from other EU countries than vice versa. Traded items will not go up in price as the free trade deal will still be in place.

Mr E
11 years ago

If we leave the EU then great all them EU nationals get sent home and we can celebrate and make Britain British again Huzzah! But the problem comes when the other EU nations do the same and all those people living and working in other EU passports are forced to come because they no longer have work rights in the respective EU nations. It’s a lovely concept to say that we could work on an individual basis with countries but it’s highly likely that the days of finding a job easily overseas would vanish and UK nationals would feel the squeeze of isolationism. Still I don’t care as I work outside of the EU in Asia

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