Ireland has posed a major political issue for Britain for centuries. It has centred around the desire of nationalists for an independent country which still hasn’t been settled. Northern Ireland over the past decade has found a strong basis for peace and has prospered massively economically. The issue of a single independent Ireland is a very contentious one. What are your views?
All the Yes points:
- Northern Ireland was created against the wishes of the majority of Irishmen and women
- Britain does not need or want Northern Ireland
- Segregation results from the border
- No to a united Ireland
- Theres No Point in Two Irelands
- United We Stand
- We want our country back.
- If you live on this island your part of IRELAND
- Yes
- it has been to long since an true irish vote has been heard
- Ireland belongs
- Ireland was stolen by the British
- We can work together and build on our beautiful country.
All the No points:
- Peace has been achieved….so don’t put it at risk
- The majority of those in Northern Ireland don’t want it
- Financially the Republic of Ireland would not be able to afford it
- Persecution of a Unionist protestant minority may emerge
Northern Ireland was created against the wishes of the majority of Irishmen and women
Yes because…
Britain ignored democracy during the Home Rule crisis and later the crisis posed by the republican forces and Sinn Fein during and after World War One. Ireland was, and still is, predominantly Catholic/Nationalist. Democratically, an independent Ireland should have been granted in 1921, but only 26 counties were made independent so that the unionist majority in the north would be safeguarded.
If you wake in the morning and look out your window to see a strange flag and people from a distant land laying claim to your garden,what would you do?Thats what happened here in this country.Bigotry was bred and buttered in home and at work and the awful truth is there are still bigots within the framework of an ever closer united Ireland that would if allowed bring us back to the days when the bully boys ruled.I really wish our forefathers could be here to witness that which will eventually come about.
Sinn Fein has the biggest electoral support in the north, it’s been growing constantly since they decided to enter politics, the biggest party in the south is going to be entering into northern politics soon, both support a United Ireland, I’d call that a full consensus on the island of Ireland being united, in 2016 there’ll be renewed desire for a united Ireland everywhere to commemorate the centenary of the founding of our state, I will also point to the ever changing demographics, Catholics consistently having much lager families than Protestants means in time Catholics will actually be a majority in Northern Ireland, along with peace being much more established and concreted over the next 10-20 years, it is only a matter of time.
Ireland has a very low corporation tax rate, the lowest in western Europe, this attracts a large amount of multinational corporations creating massive amounts of well paid jobs, if we were part of the UK we simply wouldn’t have this advantage and would lose out big time, this policy alone can be attributed to our economic boom of the past 15 years or so. As for Northern Ireland, they are lobbying the government in London to lower their corporation tax rate in just NI, they want to be a special economic region to the rest of the UK, instead they should just harmonise the rate with the south. As for the cross border shopping, that was costing the Republics economy around 600 million per anum and threatening the jobs of over 200,000 people in the retail sector, recently the UK chancellor has increased VAT coupled with a weakening of the Euro to Sterling exchange rate has meant a great reduction in cross border shopping, instead of having to rely on London to correct this problem ( and that’s not why the rate was increased) they should just harmonise the VAT rate of the island of Ireland. Combining and amalgamating services ECT. on a small island with a relatively small population of coarse makes more financial sense, in fact having separate services is financial lunacy, why would you have a separate electricity and gas grid? Why would you have separate road and rail authorities? The Republics government is investing in hospitals for people on both sides of the border, such as in Derry for people in Donegal and the surrounding area for geographical reasons because it wouldn’t make financial sense to invest on the Republics side. Any economist will tell you it makes way more financial sense to have a more centralised and acute health care system, it’s just an economic fact. The Republics economy is still far superior to the norths with a far higher standard of living and much higher GDP per capita. Combing resources, people and ideas will make the island much stronger overall.
No because…
This is a clearly pro-republican argument and ignores the wishes of the huge majority of Protestant unionists who dominate Northern Ireland. To say that Ireland is predominantly Catholic is to pretend that Northern Ireland doesn’t exist. Northern Ireland has been set in stone as a political reality and to destroy it will create turmoil and death.
In 1912-14 the Home Rule crisis came about because a large concentrated section of the UK wanted to break away. These Irish had a good point. This is called ‘self determination’. However, on the island of Ireland, another concentrated population in the north east decided it wanted to remain part of the UK. This, on the same grounds of argument, is self-determination. Both are legitimate. Joseph Lee, an historian, wrote:
“The Scotch-Irish subjective sense of separate identity, the ultimate criterion of nationality, drew sustenance from a history, language, culture and economy undeniably different from those which nationalists choose to consider essentially Irish.”
If the Irish are different from the British, then the Unionists are different from the Nationalist Irish. Thus, to say that Irish independence is justified is to admit the argument of Unionism is also justified.
Britain does not need or want Northern Ireland
Yes because…
britian financially costs them about seven billion pounds a year. they see it as a financial burden on them and also having an unstable region on their doorstep.of course they want to get rid of it,strategically they can cut their expenditure and re-organise their military to more needed roles in afghanistan.
If the troubles were to kick of again uner a united ireland. irish troops have been involved in peace keeping operations around the world(kosovo,chad and lebanon) and are more than capable of stability.
No because…
Unfortunatley for Irish nationalists strategic considerations are no longer a defining point. The Falklands aren’t strategically important, but Britain fought to keep them and not give into bullish tactics from Argentina. In NI they will not give into bullish tactics from Sinn Fein or the IRA. Nor will they betray the wishes of the majority in NI.
By surrendering NI simply on strategic considerations would be counter productive: paramilitary activity would go through the roof- the British army would need to get involved via the UN to keep peace (the Irish Army would be hopeless at this)- this in turn is strategically counter-productive.
Segregation results from the border
Yes because…
Integration of the two contrasting communities north and south of the border would establish a stronger foundation for peace and stability. Irish traditions are lost on the unionist community in Ulster and by having a united Ireland they could integrate more in Irish culture.
No because…
To create a United Ireland would simply create division between Unionists and their links with Britain. No integration would come from it. Can you honestly believe that paramilitary organisations will happily join with the rest of Ireland? Of course not. Conflict would re-emerge and the Troubles would return . This in turn would create more divisions and result in a long period of segragation within the northern counties and take many years, even centuries to over come.
No to a united Ireland
Yes because…
Britian in Ireland is a forgien occupation and always has been. The people of Ireland should never have been segregated and split by an invading army. Britain created secterism and conflict on the island of Ireland, the people of Ireland lived as one for centuries before an invading British Army came and planted their settlers mainly in the North, which is why the majority of unionists are in the North, and why the 6 occupied counties where partitioned from the rest of the Country. Britain should never have had any political power or presence in Ireland in the first place.
They dont ,they wont and they never will because we have not and will never accept british rule in Ireland.In every land where England has planted its seeds it has only brought forth rotten fruit.The indiginous people did not eat of this fruit and therefor where not blighted all they wanted was that which belonged to them.Return the crown jewels to those you stole them from,return the Rosetta stone to the Egyptians relinguish the rock and many more stolen items,lives,cultures and cruel deeds and leave us to get on with our lives as we see fit.
No because…
Protestant settlers have been living in Northern Ireland for hunderds of years, to eject them in the name of a “United Ireland” would be inhuman. The wrongs of the Imperialism are neither here nor there, the current situation would mean that to go against the will of the majority in the region (Northern Ireland) would be a simple act of revenge over an event that took place hunderds of years ago.
The ‘British’ Army did not exist during the first settlements; These settlements are more like the settlements in America. If they are illegitimate settlements then the United States is by implication illegitimate. That land therefore belongs to the native americans, just like the land in Ireland would supposedly belong to the ‘native’ Irish.
Furthermore, foreign occupation is the wrong term. The people of NI are happy to be part of the UK. The British Army, if occupying, would be on the streets. They are not. Thus, it is a manifestation of 21st century national ideals of self-determination: the majority of people of NI want to belong to the UK.
It may also be pointed out that at the time that the normans first invaded Ireland was anything but united itself.
May I point out, that Northern Ireland, was ‘planted’ as opposed to ‘settled’
Foreign occupation is the correct term.
We have fought against foreign occupation for 800 years, and continue to do so, thankfully now on more peaceful terms.
I find no record in history of the English fighting for 800 years to get rid of the Normans.
Theres No Point in Two Irelands
Yes because…
Two Ireland’s was Only ment to be Temporary The British Should just keep to the Agreement and Give Ireland {north/south} its Complete Freedom or Else Give the North of Ireland a Better Choose than at Present {federalism , confederalism , unitary state } because at present our Powers are Smaller than even Scotland {Which is in Great Britain} or else Soon i can see a War more worse than the Troubles Ever where for Irish Indepedence we Deserve are Freedom as Much as the South or The United States . the British Empire is Gone so why is the North of Ireland still in the United Kingdom it does not make any sence they have their choose of a Few Islands before they Even get to us {Isle Of Man Etc.} which have Federalism
No because…
Ireland is NOT one nation, even regardless of the border.
A nation is a large group of people of a nationality based on culture, tradition, language, history, economic links etc.
In the north east of Ireland their is a nation that differs from the nation in the south.
Therefore, to think Ireland is of one nation is wrong, thus supporting the fact there is a very reasoned point behind the creation of Two Irelands.
It should be remembered that Ireland was not united before the normans arrived.
p.s. how does being in Great Britain make Scotland less deserving of independence when it had a much longer history of being an independent united nation?
United We Stand
Yes because…
With partition there will never be peace, because nationalists/republicans will always want a united Ireland. To prevent the Troubles Pt. 2, we need to convince unionists that there is a rightful place for them in a united Ireland, along with nationalists, as equal citizens.
In the current economic climate, partition hinders the two states of this country.
Britain does not need Northern Ireland and does not want to have to pay for it. The bill will probably not be as high in a united Ireland.
Unification is going ahead. As Britain doesn’t want us, and they can’t democratically hand us over against the will of the majority (they would if they could), we wait until the majority is nationalist and hold a referendum.
When the vote for a united Ireland is passed, then it is time to decide how to go about a new Ireland. Unionists need not be afraid that they will be tramped on. The government will welcome them, respect and consider their views as those of citizens of this country.
The Irish constitution demands that votes such as that for Lisbon be put to the public. Does the UK respect your opinion in such a way?
No because…
1/ Trouble part 2 will be more likely if a United Ireland was given. Loyalists would definitley take up arms.
2/ If the bill for NI would be smaller in a united Ireland then living standards would fall in the north. This would simply put people off the idea, even nationalists.
3/ Only a democratic vote in favour of a United Ireland can justify the move, and that seems a long way off (maybe 50 to 100 years and even then an ushering in period would be required).
4/ A referendum on the Good Friday Agreement was held in 1998 in north and south of Ireland. In NI a 81% turnout voted 71% in favour of the Agreement and 94% of those who voted in the ROI voted in favour of the Agreement. This shows that people prefer the maintainence of NI in a peaceful manner.
We want our country back.
Yes because…
Ireland has been like a training camp for the brits for tens of years but for the recent 35 years we have stood firm,solid and unwavering against second class citizenship and the bigitry of the stormount so called goverment.We could have been where we are now many years ago if it had`nt been for the hatred and the whole rotten system.I have yet to hear one unionist mp say sorry for the hurt and the degradation and the pain they caused to the nationalist people over all those years.Its time at least one unionist stood up and said “Sorry”for stealing your country and making our fathers fathers lives a misery.
No because…
Sorry ok.
But a demand for sorry does not a nation make. It is not a reason for a united Ireland any more than a demand for ‘sorry’ from the IRA is a demand to keep NI united with the UK.
A big part of the problem will always be an unwillingness for both sides to say sorry. It is something that will eventually need to be gotten past.
If you live on this island your part of IRELAND
Yes because…
It is one island all the people that live on the island need to use it to its full potential and not make a new country out of a few fields, the island is IRELAND the country is IRELAND if you don’t want to be a part of Ireland get out!
No because…
This seems to assume that one island means that it should all be under the control of one nation which is not a very good argument. Not only is it a kick in the teeth of the Scots (it rather implies it should remain part of the UK for eternity) but also there seems to be no reason why there should not be borders on an island – Haiti/Dominican republic, North/South Cyprus (bad example I know), Indonesia/Papua New Guinea, probably a few more. Just because an island is one island does not mean it should be one nation. Both halves may even have the same history/culture but this still does not mean they have to be united.
Yes
Yes because…
Uk stole it and and now it’s time to give it back.it was never theirs to start with
No because…
Yes English and Scottish settlers came over to Ireland and settled, but this has happened the world over. There are not many advocates for giving the USA back to the native americans. History is history, it happened, get over it. There is no point basing views on recriminations for history or we would have never ending violence. Any unification needs to be based upon the present.
it has been to long since an true irish vote has been heard
Yes because…
it is about time the Irish people are allowed a say in their own future without the interference of a foreign occupier
The British design the North of Ireland the way that it is so that the majority of the vote would stay in their favour. Ever wonder why the British didnt take the whole of Ulster, because that would mean most of the population would have voted for a republic. The broke my country in two so that they could protect their own. During the War of Independence the whole country cried for a Republic at that time there was the majority but the british didnt appected that some they found away of keeping as much land as possible by giving themseleves the majority. Both Tyrone and Fermanagh have a majority to turn to the Republic why are they not allowed to put that to the british crown.
No because…
Polls have tended to show that the Northern Irish wish to stay as they are.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Northern_Ireland_Poll.png]] Does this mean it will stay that way, no. When it does the UK should accept a popular vote that states unequivically that Northern Ireland wishes to rejoin Ireland. This however has to be the entire northern irish population and no one else. Irish in Ireland and the UK should have no say over the matter.
The “wishes of the whole of Ulster” argument are a complete red herring. The provinces of Ireland are simply approximations of ancient kingdoms and used as convenient divisions for some regional organizations. They are not areas representing any distinct and homogenous political or cultural identity. When the majority of Ireland rightfully expressed its wishes to part fom the United Kingdom, a large group predominantly concentrated in one area wanted a different direction. They could have been in a frew counties spanning more than one of the “provinces” it doesn’t matter. It seems inherently reasonable on an Ireland with split views to say there is enough room for two distinct states. It may have been been incovenient for Nationalists living in the north, but it was also inconvenient for Loyalists in the south.
Ireland belongs
Yes because…
Ireland belongs to the irish not the english we did not ask you to come over here but we are telling you to go.
I am from the North of Ireland and i am Irish not british, Ireland belongs to the IRISH people not the british, so anyone from any part of Ireland that classily themselves as being british and not Irish have no right to decide what way the country is formed because Ireland belongs to the IRISH. An United Irish Republic can be formed where everyone can live in peace but peace will never really be possible unless all ties with britian are cut once and for all.
No because…
The Northern Irish are not English. They are Irish and even those ones who did come over from Scotland or England have been Irish for centuries.
Ireland was stolen by the British
Yes because…
The british have NO right to agrue there case for ownership of any of this land. They stole the country from the Irish people and moved there own people over to rule over us. It is the Children of these british people that came over to rule over the Irish people that rights the british goverment say they are up holding by keeping them part of the UK… I say they have no right to this land as their fathers before them stole the land and have to right to decide what is done with it. The Irish people have made it very clear over the past 800 years that we do not want british rule. I believe that there is only one way that we can move forward and reunite this great land and that is to have a Sinn Féin goverment in the South and Sinn Féin as the head party in the North and form the United Republic. Our greatest weapon is our refusal.
No i am not accusing unionistsof not being Irish, I am accusing them of not appecting that they are in fact Irish and if they can not appect that they have no right to any part of this country. Anyone that was born on these shores and who accpects that they are Irish people has a claim to the ownership of this Land.
Right well ok then what about the people living in the North who want to be part of the Republic. I would never deny anyone their freedom of speech, but no matter who comes out on top of this agrument there will be on side that is unhappy with the result.
Yes lets look at Sinn Féin’s record in the Irish Election. THEY ALMOST TREPILED THEIR SEATS in the last election and have built a good stand for the next election.
In the North Sinn Féin are going to become the largest Party come the assembly election and the unionists know this. This is going to send a wave a patriotism through this whole Island of Éire. It will no longer be a question of will there be a United Ireland but When will it come to pass, and it will be sooner reither than later.
Erin go Bragh
No because…
That sounds very like you are accusing unionists of not being Irish simply because they have only been in Ireland for 300-400 years.
Denying a right to argue a case for ownership of parts of Northern Ireland would be denying rights to the thousands who wish to remain with Britain and would seem to be denying any right to freedom of speach for them.
Given Sinn Fein’s record in Irish elections so far you are rather jumping the gun in terms of ideas of a Sinn Fein government. If Ireland was to be united the they would lose a major raison d’etre so there would be a good chance that support for them would decline.
We can work together and build on our beautiful country.
Yes because…
Ireland all the people of Ireland the country together would be a force to be reckoned with on the economic tourist and trade areas.
The Glass is half empty with us in separate realms.Look to the future of our economy and childrens futures together, with the best prospects for us (needing eachother) to build the best Ireland that is possible.
They want us to keep us exasperated so we are divided and do not become to strong.
No because…
Peace has been achieved….so don’t put it at risk
No because…
A united Ireland will surely spark off a new episode of troubles. Loyalist paramilitaries will not react nicely to unity.
But then again neither will the IRA.
Yes because…
So we convince unionists/loyalists that a united Ireland is for them, and Ireland will be an island of equals. We are forgetting that many men and women died during the troubles for a cause that was mixed with political and paramillitary ideas. I beleieve in a united ireland were everybody is equall but the big question is is if ireland and england will co operate. When the loyalist People and orangemen become part of Ireland they will feel more welcome to march and show there belief, they march against belief and march up a street because they think they can when they become unite with Ireland peace will reign and they will be more welcome. think about it a united police force no more dissident threats a united Ireland is the way to go its the way forward.
The majority of those in Northern Ireland don’t want it
No because…
Democratically the unionists are in the majority. They don’t want unity.
Also, a referendum on the Good Friday Agreement was held and Sinn Fein abstained, knowing the majority would support it, north and south.
Yes because…
Exactly why a referendum hasn’t been held yet.
Financially the Republic of Ireland would not be able to afford it
No because…
Northern Ireland costs 10 pounds each year in terms of investment….Dublin would up this to 20 pounds and maintain the high living standards in Belfast.
Yes because…
on the contrary if a united ireland was achieved the north would flourish with low taxes, subsidies will not be needed as much.but also the govenment would immediately cut jobs in the public sector,to make it financially viable. the only major expenditure is the re-orginisation of the PSNI into a reinforced Garda siochana and also the creation of another army brigade for northern ireland aswell as support for such brigade.
In the days of the celtic tiger(economic boom),Ireland had hge surplus’s each year,if anything northern ireland benefit by a united ireland.But irelands economy must be in a good state at the time and also a deal would have to be reached financially with the unionists.
If an agruement ever comes to money I have this to say I would rather a mud hut and be free.
Persecution of a Unionist protestant minority may emerge
No because…
Unionists have often argued that should Ireland ever be united they would become a persecuted minority in a predominantly Catholic state. This could lead to a re-emergence of “The Troubles” except this time with the Unionist groups playing the insurgence roll of the IRA.
Yes because…
They believe this because of how Catholics were treated by the British. So it is generally false, and we need to convince them otherwise.
Yep i cant wait to persecute all the protestants in ulster within a united ireland…………come on dont be silly we live in the 21st century here. Besides the catholic church is a dying away in ireland and loosing alot of its power. Religion doesnt play a big role anymore in ireland like it did in the past even during the troubles.
What type of persecution do unionsts think they will recieve anyway. Do they honestly think an irish goverment within a united ireland will Jerry-mander electorial wards, refuse jobs to protestants or deny them socail housing in favour of catholics. I dont understand this idea of persecution. By the way the majority of points raised on the (no to a united ireland) seem quick to point out the emergence of loyalist paras under a united ireland. Peace for unionists only means peace within the UK seemingly.
I am from Vancouver,Canada and i wanted to say that Northern Ireland has been occupied by British Troops since 1921.There can be no worth while peace while Northern Ireland is occupied.Occupation has got to go.The Good Friday Agreement did nothing to unite Ireland George Mitchell was involved in the Good Friday agreement and also the Oslo Agreement in Palestine.Both of these Agreements were bad both for the Irish and the Palestinians.In both these cases George Mitchell sided with the British and Israel.The US Gov’t never did make a good peace agreement with any country.Look at Central and South America and you will see how Yankee Imperialism works.
The Republicans in Northern Ireland got the support of the majority of people in the world in their fight for a united Ireland.It is up to them to unite Ireland.The US Gov’t and the British Gov’t are the enemies of a united Ireland.One for All and All for Ireland’s 32.
It is a separate island.
It stands as a island on it own.
A sea surrounds it.
Britain is a island.
A sea surrounds it !!
The British have tried to make Ireland part of the UK for centuries. In doing so they have been met with fierce resistance for generations. Causing misery, loss of life and economic stress on both sides. The result of that has led to a divided, sectarian northern Ireland clinging onto beliefs and ideals that the rest of the UK left behind long ago. Then there’s the issue of a segregated people, potentially exacerbated by a hard border with Brexit and so on and so on… I feel as though the issue would be more debateable if a fair amount of both Northern Irish and Irish people felt strongly for unionism. But there simply isn’t. A united Ireland is the only logical outcome. Possibly compromising the unionists by offering dual nationality to Irish citizens (so they can chose to remain British citizens or move to Britain if they wish).
I think it makes absolute sense to unite ireland as ireland united will benefit the agricultural industry one of irelands biggest exports and everyone would be irish no matter their religoun or ethnic background. Plus the british government could have brought both sides to the political table back in the 60s but instead they murdered civillians for 3 decades. Tiocfaidh ar la
No to a united Ireland. I am ultimately on the side of peace. We can co-exist as separate countries
Sinn Fein has taken an extreme anti-protestant nationalist viewpoint on United Ireland. I am neither Catholic nor protestant, but I advocate for a reunion of North and south. We need to take a soft, tolerant approach which embraces diversity of religion and ethnicity if we want a United Ireland. The fact is, the only reason the IRA and the Troubles occurred was because of British imperialism and the Northern Irish border. Right now, most Ulsters and Scots-Irish identify as British because they fear the Catholic Nationalism of many Republicans. If you live in this island, you are Irish, and no matter your religion or ethnicity should embrace traditional Celtic irish culture, not the culture of a on imperialist empire. To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if Northern Ireland wanted their own country, separate from the UK and Ireland. But they shouldn’t be under rule of a hateful colonialist state. The ideal solution is create a religiously tolerant state of both Protestants and Catholics, a United Republic of Ireland.
If unionist feel like this it is because they are either judging nationalists by the standards of their unionist forebearers in the North of Ireland or believing extreme political retoric from the dup. I don’t think either is fair or accurate, in a united Ireland everyone would be bending over backwards to welcome unionists and make them feel equal and secure….unlike how Catholics were treated upon the creation of Northern Ireland.
Polls have confirmed even Catholics in Northern Ireland do not overwhelmingly want union, the majority of people in Northern Ireland is against this. You can bring as many compelling arguments as you like, but you can’t ignore the desires of the actual people living there, who want to remain in the UK.
IMHO that has changed under due to Brexit and the DUP leadership of Arlene Foster, as a moderate nationalist I would now vote yes whereas a few years ago I was happy enough and would not have, this is the case for many of my peers.
As I child rowing up in the seventies, I was haunted by the ads saying “The Children Of Northern Ireland Need Your Help” I wanted to be there throwing rocks at the soldiers, it was in my blood and no denying it. My Irish Mother challenged me to find out if there was two sides to the story and for six years I read everything I could get my hands on. At 18, I went to her and said ” There is not two sides to the story, they stole our land-plain and simple” She said something like ” Now you know it in your mind ,as well as your heart” . When I heard there was a chance of One Ireland , my heart leapt with joy1 At 50, I thought this dream might only happen after I was gone. When I heard it was for economic reasons I was temporarily disheartened…What? Not Celtic Pride? Was Tom Robbins right after all? Is money what really rules us all? No, but without economic security, all other types are nearly impossible. So.. What is best for both Irelands? I have faith in my Mother’s people to show immensely more compassion than they have show us. As a resident of northern California, I really have no right at all to say. But as my Sister pointed out as a bird watching enthusiast, considering joining Ducks Unlimited- As long as there are still ducks flying in the sky- the reason why its important to us ,almost doesn’t matter! Here is hoping to see the beautiful land of both my Mother’s people and my Father’s Mother’s people -become One again!
Cheers,
Kristina Sullivan Kelly Fischer
I think Northern Ireland and Ireland should be untied because Great Britain neither needs or wants Northern Ireland, there should be one Ireland. Northern Ireland was created against the Irishmen and women’s wishes. And it just makes sense. If you disagree with uniting Ireland then you are not a true Irish.
It will happen and they know they are on borrowed time.They will self destruct on sectarian bile poor sods.
Let’s look at this historically; Ireland had been a nominally united country until about 1000 AD when Brian Boru established himself as the Ard Ri (High King) of Ireland. Eventually, Ireland fell to division again. Correct me if I’m wrong, but historians agree that when the king of Leinster wanted to take over the kingdom of West Leinster, he asked for the assistance of the Norman lord Strongbow, who later had a claim to the throne through marriage. In an instance of classic Norman Anglo-Saxon supremacist ideals, Henry II told Strongbow to submit to English authority. Thus, the “Pale” was established, which ultimately was not a significant issue in the majority of the population of Ireland’s lives. The Normans were initially productive and modernized the area by creating defensive structures and roads. However, in another example of supremacist ideals, the English saw the Anglo-Irish lords adopting Irish culture. As a result, a significant suppression of culture was established under the Statues of Kilkenny. Ireland’s kings and chieftains wished for a united Gaelic Ireland as had existed not too much earlier. Violent uprisings occurred, which it can be said reflected the view of the common Irishman, the want for a United Ireland. When Henry VIII broke away from the Catholic Church for selfish reasons, the Irish understandably were disillusioned. Why should they have to succumb to a foreign religion established for selfish reasons? Not only that, it represented further oppression of traditional Irish culture; Catholicism.
The Irish people longed for a United Ireland, and near-victories like those of the Irish Confederacy showed how close Ireland was to independence.
Before I continue, the question must be asked: Why should the Irish people rule over Ireland? What “claim” do they have to rule over the people? Clearly, as a result of suppression of culture, mass murder and arguably genocide which took place during the Cromwellian era as well as the Great Hunger (seeing as the UK had enough food to feed Ireland twice over, but its belief that the Irish were simply a lowly inferior people to that of the Anglo-Saxons kept it from acting on the deaths of, some have argued, millions of people; not to mention the large quantity of immigrants leaving for America, and Canada, where only tens/hundreds of thousands died on the journey. This Anglocentric view dominated the opposition to a United Ireland.
But again, why should Ireland be ruled by the Irish? The answer is simple: Ireland’s culture is still very strongly rooted in traditional Gaelic culture; foreigners could never fully understand the effect of this, which is why so many wars took place between the Irish people and the British crown. The people have also longed for independence from a tyrannical, imperialist nation for 800 years. 800 years! Is this not long enough?
Loyalists are hypocrites; their culture is one rooted in hatred and selfishness. They claim to be Christian, yet their actions show otherwise. They claim that if Ireland becomes united, that there would be oppression of their culture. To Loyalists I say 2 things:
1) You have oppressed Irish culture since the plantation of Ulster, a disgusting show of British attempts to bring its people, whom they refuse to recognize as humans worth their time, under control, and
2) Loyalism is a culture who’s focus is dominance. This is why the plantation occurred! Loyalism can never be recognized as a culture of peace; their goals are to keep a historically united nation divided
People will say “Northern Irish people, as a majority, do not want to join the Republic of Ireland.” Well, why is that? Because of the Plantation! Democracy has been corrupted by the Plantation; thus no loyalist descendant of the Scotch-Irish has any right to take a stand in this debate. If we remove loyalists from the picture, then the majority is clearly one of Irish nationalism, which clearly seeks a united Ireland.
As a final point, we see Loyalist philosophy reflected in the UVF, UVA, etc. These are the terrorists which government must devote its efforts to fight. It is these men who kill people not out of a strategic motivation, rather they kill Catholics arbitrarily. Granted, the Irish Republican Army is violent, yet it did/does not target civilians. It is terribly unfortunate that civilians have been killed in this conflict, and I want every family to understand my extension of sympathy to them. But we cannot have a terrorist regime, the British government (which I say because of its imperialist tradition over a significant portion of the world, and violent oppression of culture internationally), rule over culturally, historically, and geographically Ireland.
Please this is 2016 don`t live in the dark ages for ever. lets all see things as they are would you live in a NHS England or the republic , I know where I Would Choose.
1641 portadown,roman Cs murder protestant out of shear hatred about 10,000dead how can protestants trust RCs, read your history.papists
The figures vary from 100 -12,000. Most say around 4000 at the most. If someone entered your yard, your house, your country-you might see this in a new perspective! The Republic of Ireland (* with a lot of “papists” ) Has shown itself to a prosperous and progressive country. And tolerant… Let go of your snide contempt and consider that Ireland can be The Future. And not the past happening over and over again! ( an indirect quote from Trinity, by Leon Uris.
I’m protestant and a christian but that’s doesn’t make me a loyalist. I’m a human being and I’m against the troubles and bitterness. Please chose what you write. Not all protestants are bitter they just want to live a normal life without all this shit going on. I want peace You sound very bitter Tim. I don’t hate catholics I have lots of friends who are catholic. I think we are better off as we are in the Uk. We don’t want to go back to those horrible days of violences. A united ireland would stir that up again which is not worth it for either side
I’ve lived thru the troubles in Northern Ireland and the truth is that he ira often targeted civilians. They had a clear policy of ethnic cleansing against Protestants along the border, also read about Kingsmill massacre, frizzels fish shop bomb, Enniskillen memorial day bomb to name but a few. IRA also killed a lot of catholics, read about ‘the disappeared’, workers, people who dared join legitimate security forces, people who disagreed and got into fights/arguments… Killed by the ira, loads of examples
The ignorance in this debate makes me cringe. For example not all Protestants came from Britain they were local converts hence Protestants with surnames such as Reilly Kelly Nolan McDermott kenny that I myself have in my family and know of. On another point Scotland is less than 15 miles from Antrim and people have been moving between the 2 for thousands of years so it makes sense that the north remains part of a multi cultural UK
I believe Ireland should be and will United as one in due time. They must take lessons from the Americas however. They must insist on a separtion of church and state. Then also look to the nation of Canada as a prototype for becoming a nation of its own. Though still a member of the Common wealth of England we run our own show and yet our history makes us uniquely Canadian. The fact of the matter is most of the World recognizes Ireland as a Country of its own. Other nations should assist in preparing Ireland for the role of Policing and law which will need to be strong and impartial for democracy to flourish.
The main problem for a United Ireland and is the UK Social Security and NHS which cannot be matched by the republic Just for the record by Great Grandmother came from Cork.
The NHS is in a shambles and i do understand that the social services is heavily leaned upon…FYI social protection in Ireland is far superior to that of the UK but we would rather do a days work…should get back to Cork sometime to catch up…
I am impartial as to whether Ireland becomes united or not.
My concerns lie in the ongoing sectarianism within this country (or these countries, if you like).
I know there are many different sectarian influences, but I am going to highlight what I believe to be the most major of these: The orange order.
This hate fueled order HAS to be decommissioned or completely reformed.
I don’t care much how people want to defend it; the fact of the matter is: The orange order is nothing but oppressive and hypocritical, enforcing social division within our communities. Did I forget to mention that they have the audacity to assert themselves as a Christian organization. It bases it’s entire existence on the belief that Catholics and Protestants cannot co-exist. Very Christian, I know!
Hypocritical, you’re thinking; How? Well, pretty much every single member of the orange order is Irish. Whether they accept it or not, it’s fact. They aren’t Scottish, English or Welsh. Sure, they may have heritage outside of Ireland, and that’s wonderful, multicultural heritage is something to prize and no one should take that from them. (Also, did you know that many of these guys ancestors spoke Irish Gaelic more fluently than 99% of anyone you probably know today. And nope – not Ulster Scots, Irish Gaelic, the one RTE Radio na Gaeilge is broadcast in.)
Back to the point; the orange order is basically a tribute and celebration to King William of Orange: the man who sieged upon Ireland with the intention of ensuring that Irish Catholics could not vote, hold public office, practise their religion, sit in the Irish Parliament or reclaim land stolen by Cromwell.
Now, this is all well and good, considering the medieval ages had barely passed. Tyranny and segregation was the norm; but, we are in the 21st Century now!
With this in mind, we see that these Irish citizens parade around Ireland over 3 centuries later celebrating it’s oppression; essentially the oppression of their own people.
At this stage you may be thinking, “Well Catholics have St. Patrick’s Day. We should have our holiday too!”
I am, of course, referring to July 12th: This is a day of celebrating the tyranny and oppression brought upon your fellow Irishman centuries ago. Doesn’t sound like such a great thing to celebrate does it?
Furthermore, some members of the community feel so disrespectful towards their neighbors; that they take it upon themselves to dress up and parade around banging on drums that can be heard for miles, posting offensive and oppressive banners with the ultimate intention to try and strike fear into the rest of the community. Eventually this leads to lighting huge bonfires on which, for some reason, they feel the need to burn memorabilia of their Irish nationality and heritage.
Then we get to St. Patrick’s day: You might try to argue that parades are held too. Maybe even a bonfire is lit, I have never seen a St. Patrick’s day bonfire but I’m not going to say it doesn’t happen.
The fundamental difference is that St. Patrick’s day is the national holiday of Ireland. It celebrates St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland! It is your national holiday too! You ARE Irish, regardless of which side of the border you live, what religion you practice or of your political views. You are legally a citizen of Ireland. You could head down to Dublin tomorrow and get an Irish passport.
In terms of the parades; I don’t find them any more pleasant than the July ones, apart from that they don’t march in an attempt to intimidate. However, you are in Ireland and you can’t argue against your country’s national holiday celebrations. You wouldn’t go to the United States and complain about their 4th of July parades, would you? Same principle.
I realize I ranted quite a bit about the orange order, their practices, and methods. I tried to remain as unbiased as possible. If I offended anyone I apologize; but please think about what I’ve written. If you disagree with anything, or would like to offer a different point of view, I welcome you to post a response. I would ask; though, that you keep in structured, relevant and civilized.
Thanks for taking the time to read through all of this,
An fir Uladh. An fir na hÉireann
Irish politics has been poisoned far to long buy religious radicals, this Island has been divided thanks to people who have been brainwashed by out dated sectarian beliefs. Its up to the parental generations of this age to properly raise their children with neither sectarian or political beliefs but rather allow them to choose their path when the time comes. That way the next generation of politicians might not be so corrupt.
Ever since the Roman Empire there was a clear difference between the Islands of Ireland and Britain, over a 1000 years ago, if they knew the difference how come Irish born men and woman cannot tell the difference now ? Time for us as a people to wise up, grow up and get over our stupid differences and look at our similarities. We all love this land and want what’s best for it , which is not a sectarian divide but rather a peaceful union of all people of this Island. I live in the North, I have my backgrounds as much as the person in East Belfast has theirs, may mines be Irish Nationalist and theirs be a Scotish/Irish Unionist background but the belief that the country of Northern Ireland is either needed or wanted by the British goverment in London is foolish, the only people who want what’s best for the population of the North other than ourselves is the South. This land has never known such peach at any time, and I employ us all to be rational about our decisions in the next few tough years ahead.Tiocfaidh ár lá!