There is much literature about this very subject of which some suggests that Christianity was very different than it is today and that the present state of this religion,as well as its beliefs, contains very little of the true religion and a lot of deceptions created by the church and powerful countries,in the past,in order to gain money or political power.Some of it states that Jesus was not the son of God but simply Gods` messenger,also there are statements that Jesus was not any of those things but merely an intelligent human,a descendant of David who used tricks in order to occupy the throne.
Is Christianity today a simple play directed by our ancestors or are we playing with God?
Should we trust history even though it is written by winners?
And even if Bible was re-written,should we seek faith in letters and papers,shouldn`t we seek God in us?
All the Yes points:
- Deception conveniently lost in translation
- A deceptive cocktail of human problems resulting in self deception
- Read between the lines
- Religion Today is not about god or belief..
- is christianity the greatest deception of today
All the No points:
- It isn’t christianity that’s the deception, organised religion is!
- Christianity may be a deception but it’s not the “greatest” one
- the basic tenets haven’t changed
- Christianity is not a deception!
- Christianity is not decietful HUMANS are
- scripture is twisted
Deception conveniently lost in translation
Saifullah makes an explicit point about Christianity “…[Christians] can’t make up their mind on the translation of their scripture as much as the actual extent of their scripture. For example with a phrase “I am the bread of life” which was and is the staple food of poor people in the middle east ,it can be interpreted to say for example in Papua New Guinea “I’ am the sweet potato of life” as an equivalent thing making Christianity more inclusive than it is. Had Christ said “I am the food of life then Christianity would be more universal then it is [[M S M Saifullah “Conversion to Christianity : A Missionary Deception ” Islamic Awareness http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/deception.html%5D%5D
Further more missionaries have engaged in deliberate acts of deception by translating text from the bible and reinterpreting it in a way designed to gain converts and that may well not be what the bible says, for example in 1975 christian missionaries operating in America deliberatley twisted words and removed parts of the bible so that they would gain converts from a tribe of Parana Indians by blaming them for the killing of Jesus rather than the Romans. Unsurprisingly they gained a large amount of converts [[http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/deception.html]] If this kind of deception is going on by missionaries in the name of their religion it implies that because they don’t believe strongly in the strength of Christian theology they think it’s a deception themselves
If the basis of your argument is laid out,evry religion in this world is a deception.
why to bug about history,live your life on simple rules,that is the best path to god
When Jesus said “I am the bread of life” he was appealing to the ethnic Israelites. During the exodus in the wilderness, the jews held a service in their mobile tent called the sanctuary. In this tent was a table on which were 12 pieces of bread, each representing one of the twelve tribes. It was God’s purpose that Israel should be “a light unto the gentiles”. The jews could have fulfilled this, but rejected Christ. Jesus knew that rejection would occur so he prepared the 12 disciples that they might take the gospel into the whole world. The bread was/is very important because it was part of a ceremony that cleansed the people of their sin. When Christ came he fulfilled the roll (role) of the bread, as well as the role of the sanctuary service because he cleanses us from all unrighteousness. A sweet potatoe has no place because it does not represent anything. Jesus is the lamb because lambs were sacrificed. He is the water because the levitical preists would cleanse themselves in a laver. All of these things that point to Christ do so for a reason.
A deceptive cocktail of human problems resulting in self deception
Christianity is a deceptive cocktail of human problems including over imagination, bad conscience a delight in causing suffering whether it be for the person or for themselves. Let’s look at these elements in the order that they appear. Bad conscience or where the soul wages war on itself creates a sense that a person owes something to a higher power when in reality they don’t. The sense of cruelty allows people in higher positions to assert themselves in a position where they can control people through the threat of damnation and eternal pain. [[ Otto Weininger “Christianity Self Deception and more on Buddhism” Heterodoxia http://www.hugoholbling.org/heterodoxia/?p=73%5D%5D
The idea that christianity is about people in high positions controling others through the threat of eternal pain and damnation is rediculious. There are a large number of churches throughout the world that are based upon everyone being his own priest, having no higherachy at all leaving only self deception. This leaves only self deception leading to people feeling they owe something to God… is this really a bad thing? (assuming it is deception at all, refer to my faith point below) I cant see how it is, in reality these people dont owe anything to the higher power (God) and the forgiving Christian God is most unlikely to demand more than a reasonable normal good life. If He exerts some neulious moral pressure on people who believe in Him then this helps to keep society stable and everyone happy.
When debating Christianity, it is important to understand which parts exactly one dissagrees with. Today’s Christianity is very different from the early christian church. Doctrines have been added which were not present before, it has been exploited through politics, and manipulated through money. With the advent of Constintine’s nominal conversion in the 4th century from solar worship, a plethora of pagan practices penetrated the purity of the church. The most obvious difference may be that early church kept the bible sabbath (saturday). Many solar worshippers became christians, hanging onto their day of worship.
Other pagan practices include:
– Christmas/Santa Claus
– Veneration of Mary
– Image worship
– Infant baptism
– Papal succesion
– Arm Raising
– Immaculate Conception (as opposed to the virgin birth)
– Salvation by works
– and the list goes on
Much of christianity is corrupted. Please try to understand the difference between what the bible teaches and how men act.
Read between the lines
The “good book” which so many Christians have claim to have read and follow earnestly, was written hundreds of years after the time of Christ. If this book was written so long after Christs life, isn’t there the possibility that the real meaning of the teachings of Christ were lost, seeing as no one was around that was alive and knew him to recount what happened when the Bible was written? Isn’t there the possibility as well that when the book was written, that perhaps there was some personal bias of the time thrown in? And is it possible that the Bible has been edited to fit the church’s agenda, and not the peoples? Christians of today maybe need to reread the bible (or read it for themselves if they have just been listening to others), and instead of following it religiously, no pun intended, need to instead read between the lines and look at the overall message that is being presented instead of just all the details.
I don’t believe that Christianity is the greatest deception of today, but definitely one of the major ones.
As a rebuttal:
The Bible was not written by “The Church” as we know it today. It’s old testament was penned by prophets who wrote God’s word down, it’s new testament was written by the disciples of Jesus, paul in particular, so know, it was not written to fit the Churches agenda.
If we are arguing about deceit, HUMANS are to blame for misinterpreting the Bible, not the book itself. The true teaching of Jesus have not been lost as Christians universally agree on Jesus and his ways, because of the Bible. The Bible was only translated into so many languages, to unite Christians all over the world. Even Paul, who travlled from the Middle East to Eastern Europe, had to preach in Macedonian, Polish and other languages to be understood.
The universal teachings have not been lost in translation.
Religion Today is not about god or belief..
Religion today is nothing more then a tool for the conservative parties to manipulate their sheep to hate and to start war without any problem.
I guess the Holly Bible is like a double edge sword. It contains the old testament, where God is too busy to punish those who are “wicked”. Wiping out nations, killing women and children without any worry. Whilst the new testament is the opposite, it teaches you to love, to be tolerant, to respect and treat everyone equally. However, the Christians or rather the Protestants (except Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons) are taught to hate (hate Muslims) by a “higher power”. This higher power is based in New York, and in Israel. When you want your followers to hate, just refer to the old testament and when you want them to be loving, use the new testament. When you want them to know how the world will end, just go to Revelation 14:6-10, or Matthew 24:14, or Daniel 12:4 and Isaiah 65:17, which again can be explained any way the Pastor manipulates the words. “Behold, I’will create new heavens and a new earth..” . which is almost identical what Tony Blair said after 9/11.. He said a “new world order” have to be created… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ6uxAqlplc
This “higher power” (not god) dictating to religious leaders what to preach (for a good sum of money). These Pastors will tell their humble sheep to vote for conservatives, because that will bring closer the “end of the world” meaning the wicked will be wiped out from earth (the wicked are the rest of the population, the good ones are the Christians and the Jews) and only the good people will survive and will leave in Israel. (I’m sure they will be dealt with the same way as the Palestinians). They believe, even though the world will end with a nuclear war, which is very near, they will be safe. The Christians should not worry, because Israel will be safe even with the nuclear fallout they will survive, because this is God’s will. This is suppose to be the second coming of Jesus and it’s connected to President Bush as he is a tool to make this happen.
No wonder this so called Christians were very unhappy when Bush was voted out. For them it was the end of this nuclear war, which they were so eagerly looking forward. Their dream was squashed. But this is not a problem, it will still happen according to the “higher power” they just have to vote in conservative governments (that also includes Christian conservative parties such as the one in Germany) all around the world and this nuclear war will start which will bring the second coming of Jesus. http://www.exploitsministry.com/ The Priest Terry Jones also got his “calling for burning the Koran” from New York – Israel based sources. He sad, he will not burn the Koran if this “higher power” will tell him so. No one has arrested him so far, (I don’t think they will, because this “higher power” would get upset) even though he is endangering the troupes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
It sounds like a horror story for children but sadly that’s what Christians are taught even as far as Australia. My good old friend from Australia seemed as a moderate Christian, until Mr Bush was voted out. He was sooo upset and told me “voting in Obama as the new president have stopped the second coming of Jesus!” I was obviously shocked, because even though I was aware of this, I didn’t think much of it, definitely not something to take it too seriously. I dismissed it as another “religious propaganda”.
Religious websites which were on the internet telling you all this, suddenly disappeared as more and more people become aware of this “dangerous” people. They took most of their sites off (except Paltalk, where many from US and Israel is hanging out to tell the Christians who to hate next) and therefore, now they are operating more carefully. All these protestant leaders (including Billy Graham) in their own private conference rooms are connected on the Internet to spread this good messages to their followers all over the world, after they receive some donation.
is christianity the greatest deception of today
yes it isthe greatest deception of today, although jesus existed in those days and was the true messiah. the churches though have jumped on the band wagon to deceive the people for one thing control and the main reason money. the christian churches of today get 25 % out of some peoples wages , this is not the way -jesus told everyone to give what they had to the poor but the churches have billions. we get mormons and jehovas witnesses door knocking for to convert others when them religions are just a few years old, started by two untrustworthy men in charles tate russell and joseph smith, nothing of what they say is true and both of these men were known perjurors in the american courts, there only aim was to create wealth. jehovas claim jesus died on a stake, also other scriptures changed by both religions to try and take over from the major religions who also doctored the scriptures, they were on to a good thing and still are preying on the gullible in our society. jesus may of cured the sick with their own self belief, certainly he was a good man but the very people that crucified him are the same descendents who reign in the roman catholic church. king constantine in the year 325 decided on creating a bible one that he and the romans would take notice of , it is highly exagerrated and total trust in this man made book is foolish, god wont be found in churches he is to be found in our own conscience and judgement .
It isn’t christianity that’s the deception, organised religion is!
Blackwell argues that Christianity is not a deception in it self but the way people observe Christianity creates the deception but one generated by organised religion. By following the established organised religions through the church or not religious people make the mistake of putting mysticism in place of genuine spirtualism. Because they are doing something in the name of God instead of living in the world by god’s teachings they are not living as Christians . [[ Blackwell Steve http://www.indywatchman.com/uncategorized/religion-satans-greatest-deception/
Christianity may be a deception but it’s not the “greatest” one
Christianity may be a great deception but it’s not the only deception out there that can be considered great or the greatest. Whether something abstract or for that matter anything is the greatest is relative to the person who thinks it great. For example being the wool wearing liberal that I am I could say that John Stewart Mill is the greatest philosopher that ever existed where as some of my more conservative friends could say that Burke or Hobbes are.
Also how do you define greatest in terms of deception? some disabled person could define the idea of independence as the greatest deception as there is a school of thought that says we are not truly completely independent from each other and are interdependent. They could argue that that is greatest because it leads to society “trying to eliminate a swathe of humanity” through cures or establish an effective dictatorship of the parent through their unwillingness to let disabled people make their own decisions as much as humanly possible . Where as other people could argue albeit without much evidence that there has been a great deception committed by big pharmaceutical companies.
In the end it all comes down to what a person thinks is a deception what criteria they use to quantify it as being greater or lesser than other deceptions
If the question had christianity as the greatest deception in history then I might agree. However it is difficult to think of christianity as a deception today.
Christians admit that believing in christianity is a matter of faith, if someone has accepted that faith are they really being decieved? They have all the arguments of atheists avaliable too them, they accept a lack of solid proof and still they believe. In the past there was little choice but to believe, there was only christianity, no rival meta theories about the creation of the universe, what happens after death etc. Christianity and religion more generally were needed to explain these questions.
Moreover while christians may ultimatly find that their faith was misplaced (i.e. a christian dies and finds that there is no heaven) there has still been no deception because the people carrying out the also believe. There is no decite involved, the pope believes in christianity and so is not tricking anyone when he proclaims that god, heaven etc exist. If he is wrong he is wrong, but will not have been deciteful.
the basic tenets haven’t changed
the basic tenets of Christianity such as belief in God and following fundamental moral laws such as ‘Love Thy Neighbour’, haven’t changed. if they had, it would be a different religion entirely. the different variations of Christanity are only different embellishments on the fundamental laws and it is perfectly possible for someone to be a Christian with only these laws. it makes no sense to say that Christianity is defined by its latest version any more than it does to say that the concept of Linux is marred by one of the latest distros having a few bugs. if the basic tenets themselves are flawed, then Christianity has always been a deception, it isn’t a ‘deception of today’.
There are many “basic tenets” besides “love thy neighbour.” “love they neighbor” is the only one I agree with unconditionally. most of the others have both positive and negative effects.
The Fall – the idea that humans are fundamentally flawed and need redemption
positive: it encourages people to admit their shortcomings and try to improve
negative: it can lead to a withdrawal from this life, the type of thinking that says “it’s a terrible world and i’m a terrible person anyway. it’ll be better in the afterlife.” but what if there is no afterlife?
The Judgment – the idea that everyone will be brought to justice by God by being sent to heaven or hell
positive: it gives people strength in the face of injustice.
negative: it makes people accept injustice instead of actively fighting to change it.
Belief in God:
positive: it gives people the sense of accountability to something higher, and the hope that in the end God will eventually make things better, since there is a purpose to our existence.
negative: the type of thinking that says “god is on our side, we can win this war.” “god is on my side, I can get this job.” “god is on my side, my opponent can go to hell.”
based on the negative effects i would say we need to outgrow some, if not all, of these tenets.
Christianity is not a deception!
Christianity is not and has not set out to deceive, though it is difficult to talk about a whole religion which is very diverse. There is too much intentionality (the Dan Brown argument esssentially I think) in suggesting a deception, asking whether Christianity is wrong is a different question, this debate, as proposed, is not focused on whether Christianity is true.
Everyone is invited, in the Christian scriptures, to explore whether Christianity is ‘true’ and to choose, or not, to respond to Jesus’ statement ‘the truth will set you free’. The essence of truth is reality, and this is where the debate starts – what is true, what is real? Hopefully this is not answered by debate but by exploration, does Christianity work, rather than ‘It is the answer!’, without knowing what the question was in the first place.
The real difficulty is distinguishing between the religion and Jesus. I always encourage people to read John’s Gospel and encounter Jesus, or you can encounter Jesus through those who follow him (which opens up interesting questions about those who are not Christians but say, with conviction, that they follow him too). I don’t set out to prove anything because logically it is not possible and any ‘proof’ is so limited as to be worthless.
Keep an open mind!
Christianity is not decietful HUMANS are
This debate talks about winners writing the Bible. Much of the newtestament was written by Paul, who was by no means a winner. He was thrown in Jail by the romans, for teaching about Christ. The debate talks about the throne that Jesus supposedly stole through fraud. Some throne, some majesty. A cross was his throne, a crown of throns, they even mocked him dressing him like a king and then beating him.
Humans have used Christianity in the past as a means of justyifying terrible actions. But the Bible never condones any such thing.
Christianity is not the deception, the only way we can be decieved is by men deceiving each other.
Agreed; humans have used Christianity as an excuse to perform horrific crimes against humanity.
However, to counter your argument that the “Bible never condones any such thing,” you should read the Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament is a jealous, bloodthirsty, vicious God that mercilessly commanded horrific attrocities like, for example, killing every human on the planet except the handful that went with Noah. Other examples are Moses commanding his people to shed each others blood as atonement for creating and worshiping the golden calf (see Zodiac, Bull). Others include the genocide of the people in the promised land when the Hebrews finally ended their 40-year stay in the dessert. Under the command of God, they wiped out whole cities, killing every man, woman, and child. All this because of racial supremecy dictated to them by God through is prophets.
Another counter to your argument is that the origins of Christianity seem a bit shaky. Regardless of who wrote the New Testament, the very large number of descrepancies between the Gospels suggest, at the very least, a broken and disjointed compiracy to create something that the governors of the ancient world could use to gain political control over people. If political control was not the objective, they certainly didn’t promote any other. The strangle-hold that the church held over Europe was the very cause of the dark ages, and the church was all about power and greed. Example: selling absolution of your sins for a sum of money.
Why did the church fight so fiercely to prevent the Bible from being published in a current language? Because they knew the would lose control. Once the Bible became available to everyone, the dark ages ended and the church’s power subsided dramatically.
Today, dozens of Christian churches dot cities all over the world. Not all of them are seeking power, but some are. However, every last one of them seeks your money. Why? Because there are only two objectives of religion: extracting money from people and controlling their lives. In all of the last 2,000 years, nothing has changed.
So, yes, Christianity is the biggest deception going.
Scripture is twisted
Yeshua (Jesus) did not come to abolish the law or the prophets (old testament), and that is one scripture that many twist and put aside to keep from honoring the law. What is sin? It is transgression of the “LAW.”