Modified:
07 Mar 2010
by Admin
Vote totals:
Yes:
58%
No:
25%
Neutral:
17%
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DEBATE: UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Posted by: munchielover
Karma:
60
Ireland has posed a major political issue for Britain for centuries. It has centred around the desire of nationalists for an independent country which still hasn't been settled. Northern Ireland over the past decade has found a strong basis for peace and has prospered massively economically. The issue of a single independent Ireland is a very contentious one. What are your views?
Executive Summary
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All the Yes points
All the No points
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Northern Ireland was created against the wishes of the majority of Irishmen and women
Britain ignored democracy during the Home Rule crisis and later the crisis posed by the republican forces and Sinn Fein during and after World War One. Ireland was, and still is, predominantly Catholic/Nationalist. Democratically, an independent Ireland should have been granted in 1921, but only 26 counties were made independent so that the unionist majority in the north would be safeguarded.
If you wake in the morning and look out your window to see a strange flag and people from a distant land laying claim to your garden,what would you do?Thats what happened here in this country.Bigotry was bred and buttered in home and at work and the awful truth is there are still bigots within the framework of an ever closer united Ireland that would if allowed bring us back to the days when the bully boys ruled.I really wish our forefathers could be here to witness that which will eventually come about.
This is a clearly pro-republican argument and ignores the wishes of the huge majority of Protestant unionists who dominate Northern Ireland. To say that Ireland is predominantly Catholic is to pretend that Northern Ireland doesn’t exist. Northern Ireland has been set in stone as a political reality and to destroy it will create turmoil and death.In 1912-14 the Home Rule crisis came about because a large concentrated section of the UK wanted to break away. These Irish had a good point. This is called 'self determination'. However, on the island of Ireland, another concentrated population in the north east decided it wanted to remain part of the UK. This, on the same grounds of argument, is self-determination. Both are legitimate. Joseph Lee, an historian, wrote: "The Scotch-Irish subjective sense of separate identity, the ultimate criterion of nationality, drew sustenance from a history, language, culture and economy undeniably different from those which nationalists choose to consider essentially Irish."If the Irish are different from the British, then the Unionists are different from the Nationalist Irish. Thus, to say that Irish independence is justified is to admit the argument of Unionism is also justified.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Britain does not need or want Northern Ireland
britian financially costs them about seven billion pounds a year. they see it as a financial burden on them and also having an unstable region on their doorstep.of course they want to get rid of it,strategically they can cut their expenditure and re-organise their military to more needed roles in afghanistan.If the troubles were to kick of again uner a united ireland. irish troops have been involved in peace keeping operations around the world(kosovo,chad and lebanon) and are more than capable of stability.
Unfortunatley for Irish nationalists strategic considerations are no longer a defining point. The Falklands aren't strategically important, but Britain fought to keep them and not give into bullish tactics from Argentina. In NI they will not give into bullish tactics from Sinn Fein or the IRA. Nor will they betray the wishes of the majority in NI.By surrendering NI simply on strategic considerations would be counter productive: paramilitary activity would go through the roof- the British army would need to get involved via the UN to keep peace (the Irish Army would be hopeless at this)- this in turn is strategically counter-productive.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Segregation results from the border
Integration of the two contrasting communities north and south of the border would establish a stronger foundation for peace and stability. Irish traditions are lost on the unionist community in Ulster and by having a united Ireland they could integrate more in Irish culture.
To create a United Ireland would simply create division between Unionists and their links with Britain. No integration would come from it. Can you honestly believe that paramilitary organisations will happily join with the rest of Ireland? Of course not. Conflict would re-emerge and the Troubles would return . This in turn would create more divisions and result in a long period of segragation within the northern counties and take many years, even centuries to over come.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
No to a united Ireland
Britian in Ireland is a forgien occupation and always has been. The people of Ireland should never have been segregated and split by an invading army. Britain created secterism and conflict on the island of Ireland, the people of Ireland lived as one for centuries before an invading British Army came and planted their settlers mainly in the North, which is why the majority of unionists are in the North, and why the 6 occupied counties where partitioned from the rest of the Country. Britain should never have had any political power or presence in Ireland in the first place.
They dont ,they wont and they never will because we have not and will never accept british rule in Ireland.In every land where England has planted its seeds it has only brought forth rotten fruit.The indiginous people did not eat of this fruit and therefor where not blighted all they wanted was that which belonged to them.Return the crown jewels to those you stole them from,return the Risotto stone to the Egyptians relinguish the rock and many more stolen items,lives,cultures and cruel deeds and leave us to get on with our lives as we see fit.
Protestant settlers have been living in Northern Ireland for hunderds of years, to eject them in the name of a "United Ireland" would be inhuman. The wrongs of the Imperialism are neither here nor there, the current situation would mean that to go against the will of the majority in the region (Northern Ireland) would be a simple act of revenge over an event that took place hunderds of years ago.The 'British' Army did not exist during the first settlements; These settlements are more like the settlements in America. If they are illegitimate settlements then the United States is by implication illegitimate. That land therefore belongs to the native americans, just like the land in Ireland would supposedly belong to the 'native' Irish. Furthermore, foreign occupation is the wrong term. The people of NI are happy to be part of the UK. The British Army, if occupying, would be on the streets. They are not. Thus, it is a manifestation of 21st century national ideals of self-determination: the majority of people of NI want to belong to the UK.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Theres No Point in Two Irelands
Two Ireland's was Only ment to be Temporary
The British Should just keep to the Agreement and Give Ireland {north/south}
its Complete Freedom or Else Give the North of Ireland a Better Choose
than at Present {federalism , confederalism , unitary state }
because at present our Powers are Smaller than even Scotland {Which is in Great Britain} or else Soon i can see a War more worse than the Troubles Ever where for Irish Indepedence we Deserve are Freedom as Much as the South or The United States . the British Empire is Gone so why is the North of Ireland still in the United Kingdom it does not make any sence they have their choose of a Few Islands before they Even get to us {Isle Of Man Etc.} which have Federalism
Ireland is NOT one nation, even regardless of the border.A nation is a large group of people of a nationality based on culture, tradition, language, history, economic links etc.In the north east of Ireland their is a nation that differs from the nation in the south.Therefore, to think Ireland is of one nation is wrong, thus supporting the fact there is a very reasoned point behind the creation of Two Irelands.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
United We Stand
With partition there will never be peace, because nationalists/republicans will always want a united Ireland. To prevent the Troubles Pt. 2, we need to convince unionists that there is a rightful place for them in a united Ireland, along with nationalists, as equal citizens.In the current economic climate, partition hinders the two states of this country.Britain does not need Northern Ireland and does not want to have to pay for it. The bill will probably not be as high in a united Ireland.Unification is going ahead. As Britain doesn't want us, and they can't democratically hand us over against the will of the majority (they would if they could), we wait until the majority is nationalist and hold a referendum.When the vote for a united Ireland is passed, then it is time to decide how to go about a new Ireland. Unionists need not be afraid that they will be tramped on. The government will welcome them, respect and consider their views as those of citizens of this country.The Irish constitution demands that votes such as that for Lisbon be put to the public. Does the UK respect your opinion in such a way?
1/ Trouble part 2 will be more likely if a United Ireland was given. Loyalists would definitley take up arms. 2/ If the bill for NI would be smaller in a united Ireland then living standards would fall in the north. This would simply put people off the idea, even nationalists.3/ Only a democratic vote in favour of a United Ireland can justify the move, and that seems a long way off (maybe 50 to 100 years and even then an ushering in period would be required).4/ A referendum on the Good Friday Agreement was held in 1998 in north and south of Ireland. In NI a 81% turnout voted 71% in favour of the Agreement and 94% of those who voted in the ROI voted in favour of the Agreement. This shows that people prefer the maintainence of NI in a peaceful manner.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
We want our country back.
Ireland has been like a training camp for the brits for tens of years but for the recent 35 years we have stood firm,solid and unwavering against second class citizenship and the bigitry of the stormount so called goverment.We could have been where we are now many years ago if it had`nt been for the hatred and the whole rotten system.I have yet to hear one unionist mp say sorry for the hurt and the degradation and the pain they caused to the nationalist people over all those years.Its time at least one unionist stood up and said "Sorry"for stealing your country and making our fathers fathers lives a misery.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Peace has been achieved....so don't put it at risk
So we convince unionists/loyalists that a united Ireland is for them, and Ireland will be an island of equals. We are forgetting that many men and women died during the troubles for a cause that was mixed with political and paramillitary ideas. I beleieve in a united ireland were everybody is equall but the big question is is if ireland and england will co operate.
A united Ireland will surely spark off a new episode of troubles. Loyalist paramilitaries will not react nicely to unity.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
The majority of those in Northern Ireland don't want it
Exactly why a referendum hasn't been held yet.
Democratically the unionists are in the majority. They don't want unity.Also, a referendum on the Good Friday Agreement was held and Sinn Fein abstained, knowing the majority would support it, north and south.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Financially the Republic of Ireland would not be able to afford it
on the contrary if a united ireland was achieved the north would flourish with low taxes, subsidies will not be needed as much.but also the govenment would immediately cut jobs in the public sector,to make it financially viable. the only major expenditure is the re-orginisation of the PSNI into a reinforced Garda siochana and also the creation of another army brigade for northern ireland aswell as support for such brigade.In the days of the celtic tiger(economic boom),Ireland had hge surplus's each year,if anything northern ireland benefit by a united ireland.But irelands economy must be in a good state at the time and also a deal would have to be reached financially with the unionists.
Northern Ireland costs billions of pounds each year in terms of investment....Dublin would struggle to maintain this and the high living standards in Belfast may slip.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
UNITED IRELAND: YES OR NO?
Persecution of a Unionist protestant minority may emerge
They believe this because of how Catholics were treated by the British. So it is generally false, and we need to convince them otherwise.
Unionists have often argued that should Ireland ever be united they would become a persecuted minority in a predominantly Catholic state. This could lead to a re-emergence of "The Troubles" except this time with the Unionist groups playing the insurgence roll of the IRA.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
Vote on the overall debate: United Ireland: Yes or no?
What do you think? Vote on this debate below.

dhc
|16:44, 09 May 08
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dhc
|16:44, 09 May 08
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shervie15
|13:25, 18 January 10
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|16:45, 09 May 08
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munchielover
|05:10, 17 July 09
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|16:50, 09 May 08
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|21:08, 21 November 08
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|21:08, 21 November 08
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|23:31, 17 February 09
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|05:16, 17 July 09
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|09:37, 25 February 09
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|05:27, 17 July 09
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|23:42, 06 March 10
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|16:51, 09 May 08
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|07:20, 24 November 08
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|07:20, 24 November 08
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