Modified:
29 Aug 2009
by Lallybhoy

Vote totals:

Yes:

50%

No:

50%

Neutral:

0%

 
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DEBATE: HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?

It is difficult to argue whether the war in Afghanistan has lost all purpose because the purpose is impossible to define. Quite frankly, how much can we ever really know? Originally, Mr Bush considered it as a means of reaching Osama Bin Laden. Originally, it aimed at unravelling the network across the Middle East with consideration for the suffering of the Afghan people. Yet, without the capture of bin Laden and humanitarian issues seem to be making little progress, has all purpose been lost? Is there any point in us being there?





HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


Discrimination against women remains


The war in Afghanistan has completely lost all purpose. The tip of the iceberg was publicly demonstrated on the 19th of April this year, when new legislation was produced which effectively legalises rape against Afghan women. On that day, the women marched against such damaging legislation to deliver a petition to parliament, when men pelted the women with stones, spitting at them and chanting ‘long live Islam’. Earlier that week, one of Afghanistan’s leading women’s rights activists was murdered at her home. A number of women have received death threats for speaking out against the Shia Family Law. After eight years of fighting in Afghanistan, does this sound like progress has been made?[1]
  1. ^ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/women-protesting-at-prorape-law-attacked-by-afghan-men-1669296.html

Maybe this envelopes exactly why there is a great deal of point in British soldiers being there. Such violent events are what British soldiers wish to avoid. Yes, progress to avoid discrimination has not occurred but the very existence and hope that we can make a difference shows that all purpose is not lost. Additionally, despite all the resistance the protesting women met, they still stood together, fighting for a cause they believed in. This is a courageous and admirable move and hopefully, it is the extra security western troops provide that spurs them on.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


Civilian deaths are too many


With the ever-growing number of civilian deaths constantly increasing, Western presence in Afghanistan is actually having the opposite effect. Thousands of deaths have been caused as a result of insurgent and foreign military action and tens of thousands of deaths indirectly: from disease, lack of medicine and care, the crime and lawlessness that has evolved from the country. Last year, the world was shocked when a wedding in Afghanistan ended in tragedy during the Kamala bombings, when most of the bridal party (including women and children) were killed by the US military. A protest against the government and foreign occupation took place afterwards: a display of such open emotion, grief and anger at what had happened that western countries doubted whether we were helping, or hindering the situation in Afghanistan. We are yet to conclude the outcome, but hopefully, the thousands of deaths will not be in vain. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/16/afghanistan-taliban-us-foreign-policy

We do not know this yet. A familiar saying is that ‘we must do a little evil, to create a greater good’. Isn’t that what we are doing here? Of course, I am not demoralising the deaths that have occurred, but if problems can be resolved in Afghanistan and a more peaceful and understanding country develops, then their lives will not be in vain. Nobody expected change overnight and the purpose of our occupation will become clear eventually.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


Support for the Taliban is growing


This statement may appear a little unfounded, but news reports that occur out of Afghanistan are in response to the numbers of civilian deaths therefore, support for the Taliban and resentment of the western soldiers is growing. It is hardly surprising when women and children are being killed by foreign soldiers, when without their presence they would still be alive. Afghans are not just angry about the bombings, but also the raids on their homes, the shootings of civilian in the streets and at checkpoints, and the failure to address those issues over the course of the war. The Taliban are taking full advantage of this and highlight such tragedies for their own cause. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18660068.htm

Perhaps it has been forgotten what life under the rule of the Taliban was like. The Taliban controlled 90% of the country: did not rebuild infrastructure; ignored humanitarian issues and left thousands of women and children begging on the streets. Afghanistan was a violent and unsafe place to live, with reports that they were supporting bin Laden and other terrorists. This was the reason and purpose that western soldiers moved in to Afghanistan.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


The original purpose is now gone


Whether it was ever really the case or not, we were sold the Afghanistan War on the basis of the "war on terror". We were going into Afghanistan to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. When was the last time that was mentioned on the news?



HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


Small changes are developing


Heroin prices are falling? That’s the change that has been made? 171 British serviceman and women have died in Afghanistan since October 2001 and this is justified by falling heroin prices? To justify these tragic deaths needs to be a change of great substance and this poor excuse is hardly worth noting.

It emerged in April of last year that since British forces where deployed in Afghanistan two years ago local farmers are not concentrating all their energies on producing heroin. Farmers are sowing wheat instead of heroin as wheat prices doubled in 2008 and the street price of heroin fell. By the lengthy amount of time that US and British forces have spent in Afghanistan, small changes are essentially notable changes and if these are being made, then the purpose is not lost. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/3666051/Afghanistan_swaps_heroin_for_wheat/


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


British soldiers feel they are making a real difference


At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, whilst MacKay was serving six months recapturing Musa Q’alah, ten British soldiers were killed. How can we know if they felt their lives were worth 800 children going to school? What about their families? It is impossible to tell what the general feeling is amongst the serving soldiers and whether they feel the purpose of the war was lost.

Reports from British soldiers always appear to be positive and Brigadier Andrew MacKay is no exception. His troops were responsible for recapturing the strategic town of Musa Q’alah from the Taliban. MacKay’s perception of the war concerned giving the disadvantaged a ‘better chance’ and built a school that 800 children now attend: “Of course there is an awful long way to go, but as long as we keep making that progress we will succeed.” People can speculate that this goal has not been reached, this particular action has not been achieved, but as long as those who are putting their lives on the line feel that the purpose is not lost, who are we to judge? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7344717.stm


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

HAS THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN LOST ALL PURPOSE?


Western troops are making reconstruction headway


This is a small part of what NATO intended to improve. Too small. A few civilians of the Afghan population will feel as though the troops have made a real difference. But for all the hard work put in over eight years and the thousands of deaths, the change is simply too small to be justified.

A joint British and Danish Support Team has been working in a province in Helmand to bring much needed reconstruction and development. This is now considered to be one of the most stable areas in Helmand and is now considered by many to be the economic centre of Helmand province. Not only do the troops help rebuild the area, such as providing clean drinking water, but are teaching the local Afghans to keep the area running. This is just a small part of what NATO intended to improve in Afghanistan. http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/BritishAndDanishSoldiersHelpReconstructGereshk.htm


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No


Vote on the overall debate: Has the War in Afghanistan lost all purpose?

What do you think?  Vote on this debate below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
1. Discrimination against women remains
# 1

The war in Afghanistan has completely lost all purpose. The tip of the iceberg was publicly demonstrated on the 19th of April this year, when new legislation was produced which effectively legalises rape against Afghan women. On that day, the women marched against such damaging legislation to deliver a petition to parliament, when men pelted the women with stones, spitting at them and chanting ‘long live Islam’. Earlier that week, one of Afghanistan’s leading women’s rights activists was murdered at her home. A number of women have received death threats for speaking out against the Shia Family Law. After eight years of fighting in Afghanistan, does this sound like progress has been made? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/women-protesting-at-prorape-law-attacked-by-afghan-men-1669296.html

melissa

|

10:20, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 2

Maybe this envelopes exactly why there is a great deal of point in British soldiers being there. Such violent events are what British soldiers wish to avoid. Yes, progress to avoid discrimination has not occurred but the very existence and hope that we can make a difference shows that all purpose is not lost. Additionally, despite all the resistance the protesting women met, they still stood together, fighting for a cause they believed in. This is a courageous and admirable move and hopefully, it is the extra security western troops provide that spurs them on.

melissa

|

10:25, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 3

Admittedly, the occupational forces of the West in Afghanistan should have found ways for the Afghan women to protest without being assailed, however, surely getting foreign forces to interfere with any form of Afghan legislation, discrimatory or not, would be one step backwards for the embryonic democracy of Afghanistan?

Roxski

|

01:46, 29 August 09

|

Karma Score: 281



2. Civilian deaths are too many
# 1

With the ever-growing number of civilian deaths constantly increasing, Western presence in Afghanistan is actually having the opposite effect. Thousands of deaths have been caused as a result of insurgent and foreign military action and tens of thousands of deaths indirectly: from disease, lack of medicine and care, the crime and lawlessness that has evolved from the country. Last year, the world was shocked when a wedding in Afghanistan ended in tragedy during the Kamala bombings, when most of the bridal party (including women and children) were killed by the US military. A protest against the government and foreign occupation took place afterwards: a display of such open emotion, grief and anger at what had happened that western countries doubted whether we were helping, or hindering the situation in Afghanistan. We are yet to conclude the outcome, but hopefully, the thousands of deaths will not be in vain. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/16/afghanistan-taliban-us-foreign-policy

melissa

|

10:21, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 2

We do not know this yet. A familiar saying is that ‘we must do a little evil, to create a greater good’. Isn’t that what we are doing here? Of course, I am not demoralising the deaths that have occurred, but if problems can be resolved in Afghanistan and a more peaceful and understanding country develops, then their lives will not be in vain. Nobody expected change overnight and the purpose of our occupation will become clear eventually.

melissa

|

10:26, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577



3. Support for the Taliban is growing
# 1

This statement may appear a little unfounded, but news reports that occur out of Afghanistan are in response to the numbers of civilian deaths therefore, support for the Taliban and resentment of the western soldiers is growing. It is hardly surprising when women and children are being killed by foreign soldiers, when without their presence they would still be alive. Afghans are not just angry about the bombings, but also the raids on their homes, the shootings of civilian in the streets and at checkpoints, and the failure to address those issues over the course of the war. The Taliban are taking full advantage of this and highlight such tragedies for their own cause. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18660068.htm

melissa

|

10:22, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 2

Perhaps it has been forgotten what life under the rule of the Taliban was like. The Taliban controlled 90% of the country: did not rebuild infrastructure; ignored humanitarian issues and left thousands of women and children begging on the streets. Afghanistan was a violent and unsafe place to live, with reports that they were supporting bin Laden and other terrorists. This was the reason and purpose that western soldiers moved in to Afghanistan.

melissa

|

10:27, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577



4. The original purpose is now gone
# 1

Whether it was ever really the case or not, we were sold the Afghanistan War on the basis of the "war on terror". We were going into Afghanistan to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. When was the last time that was mentioned on the news?

RossTaylor

|

05:31, 15 July 09

|

Karma Score: 25


# 2

To be fair, the Obama administration has repackaged the above justification as the "war of necessity" but the propaganda purpose should not be assumed to be the war's only purpose, however right or wrong the other objectives of the war might have been.

Roxski

|

01:49, 29 August 09

|

Karma Score: 281



1. Small changes are developing
# 1

It emerged in April of last year that since British forces where deployed in Afghanistan two years ago local farmers are not concentrating all their energies on producing heroin. Farmers are sowing wheat instead of heroin as wheat prices doubled in 2008 and the street price of heroin fell. By the lengthy amount of time that US and British forces have spent in Afghanistan, small changes are essentially notable changes and if these are being made, then the purpose is not lost. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/3666051/Afghanistan_swaps_heroin_for_wheat/

melissa

|

10:23, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 2

Heroin prices are falling? That’s the change that has been made? 171 British serviceman and women have died in Afghanistan since October 2001 and this is justified by falling heroin prices? To justify these tragic deaths needs to be a change of great substance and this poor excuse is hardly worth noting.

melissa

|

10:27, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577



2. British soldiers feel they are making a real difference
# 1

Reports from British soldiers always appear to be positive and Brigadier Andrew MacKay is no exception. His troops were responsible for recapturing the strategic town of Musa Q’alah from the Taliban. MacKay’s perception of the war concerned giving the disadvantaged a ‘better chance’ and built a school that 800 children now attend: “Of course there is an awful long way to go, but as long as we keep making that progress we will succeed.” People can speculate that this goal has not been reached, this particular action has not been achieved, but as long as those who are putting their lives on the line feel that the purpose is not lost, who are we to judge? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7344717.stm

melissa

|

10:24, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 2

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, whilst MacKay was serving six months recapturing Musa Q’alah, ten British soldiers were killed. How can we know if they felt their lives were worth 800 children going to school? What about their families? It is impossible to tell what the general feeling is amongst the serving soldiers and whether they feel the purpose of the war was lost.

melissa

|

10:27, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577



3. Western troops are making reconstruction headway
# 1

A joint British and Danish Support Team has been working in a province in Helmand to bring much needed reconstruction and development. This is now considered to be one of the most stable areas in Helmand and is now considered by many to be the economic centre of Helmand province. Not only do the troops help rebuild the area, such as providing clean drinking water, but are teaching the local Afghans to keep the area running. This is just a small part of what NATO intended to improve in Afghanistan. http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/BritishAndDanishSoldiersHelpReconstructGereshk.htm

melissa

|

10:25, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577


# 2

This is a small part of what NATO intended to improve. Too small. A few civilians of the Afghan population will feel as though the troops have made a real difference. But for all the hard work put in over eight years and the thousands of deaths, the change is simply too small to be justified.

melissa

|

10:28, 08 July 09

|

Karma Score: 577



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