Modified:
28 May 2009
by B Lloyd

Vote totals:

Yes:

100%

No:

0%

Neutral:

0%

 
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DEBATE: SHOULD THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER APOLOGISE FOR CHILD ABUSE COMMITTED IN CARE HOMES- SPONSORED BY CARE MATTERS PARTNERSHIP

Ten years ago Irish Taioseach Bertie Ahern apologised for the abuses committed by Irish Catholic church priests in the Republic of Ireland from the 1930's to the 1960's. Should Gordon Brown do the same and apologise for failures in care homes committed by care workers in care homes in the UK?





SHOULD THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER APOLOGISE FOR CHILD ABUSE COMMITTED IN CARE HOMES- SPONSORED BY CARE MATTERS PARTNERSHIP


Provides partial closure and acknowledgement


Bertie Ahern's apology to those people in educational institutions provided two key things to people that have been cited as helping to heal victims of abuse . Firstly acknowledgement by the state at the highest level that it had made serious mistakes and errors in the past which had damaged its own citizens . Secondly it also provided partial closure to those victims that had been affected by abuse in that the state had apologised for it's role. Given that these two things were provided had helped , why is the prime minister Gordon Brown not providing things that could help heal a wound that has yet to heal for a lot of people affected.[1]
  1. ^ Matthew Huggins, Care Matters Partnership article

Would an apology really lead to closure or would it lead to claims for compensation. The abuse scandals in Australia have seen claims for compensation by individuals involved despite an apology by Pope Benedict XVI[1]. Admittedly the Catholic Church agreed to pay compensation in this case but it still opens the doors to compensation claims some unecessary that could divert funds that could be needed elsewhere.[2]
  1. ^ BBC Online News "Pope Sorry For Priests Abuse"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7515079.stm
  2. ^ BBC Online News "Record award for church abuse victims" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2042698.stm


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER APOLOGISE FOR CHILD ABUSE COMMITTED IN CARE HOMES- SPONSORED BY CARE MATTERS PARTNERSHIP


Large amount of scandals across the UK indicates lack of national oversight and willingness to intervene


Aside from the Baby P scandal which happened outside of care the UK has had a significant amount of scandals happening across the UK. Some of which have attracted large amounts of conspiracies about secret service involvement such as the Kincora Boys Scandal[1].This" rel="nofollow">http://www.missingpersons-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/archive-kincorascandal.htm]].This was a child abuse scandal that occurred at a boys home in the 1980's where a large amount of child abuse was discovered to have occurred for a number of years . Although people were sentenced to time imprisonment , given the scale of the abuse and lack of oversight shouldn't there be an apology acknowledging the victims of this and other more recent incidents.[2]
  1. ^ Cairns Jim "The Kincora Scandal" ^ Wikipedia "Kincora Boys' Home" Accessed 27.05.09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys%27_Home

Even if the circumstances. An apology alone would not mean anything without full action behind it. So Brown could apologise but use the apology as a convenient way to "draw a line" at it and not launch an inquiry into abuse as well as strengthen oversight systems. An example of this could be said to be the Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper's apology for the abuse of residential schools abuse. While it was good it could be argued to be not enough as Canada has not signed the declaration of rights on Indigenous Peoples.[1]
  1. ^ "Harper apologizes for residential school abuse"http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080610/native_apology_080611/20080611?hub=TopStories


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER APOLOGISE FOR CHILD ABUSE COMMITTED IN CARE HOMES- SPONSORED BY CARE MATTERS PARTNERSHIP


The man or woman at the top has ultimate responsibility


Even though Gordon Brown may not have been around for all of the time abuse has happened in care, he is head of the government and legislature. This means although power may have been delegated down to the various officials in the care system, the responsibility has not and ulitmately lies with him.

Due to our parliamentary structure Gordon Brown may be at the top but because of the autonomy given to local councils particuarly in health and social care in the past the responsibility lies with the leader of the county council who might I add is also an elected official. Therefore the leaders of County Councils should be the ones that should be apologising whether individually or as a group in public. An example of this is the leader of Haringey council George Meehan apologsing over the Baby P scandal. Maybe Brown should pressure or facilitate those leaders in to making an apology but he can not speak for them.[1]
  1. ^ "Haringey Apologises over Baby P" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7736566.stm


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER APOLOGISE FOR CHILD ABUSE COMMITTED IN CARE HOMES- SPONSORED BY CARE MATTERS PARTNERSHIP


Following a strongly established treatment of leading figures in public life apologising.


There is a time honoured tradition of leaders of states, organisations etc apologising for the mistakes wrongful actions committed by those institutions in the past. Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd apologised on behalf of Parliament for the treatment of Australian Aborgines including those of the Stolen Generation in February 2008.[1]. Pope John Paul also apologised countless time including for abuse committed by the church priests even though he was not directly involved.[2]
  1. ^ http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/apology/text.htm
  2. ^ "Pope sends first e-mail apology" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1671540.stm

There may well be a tradition of public figures apologising but sometimes for things they had no control over in the first place! To paraphrase Simon Jenkins "The point of history is not to cherry-pick incidents through which we can tell ourselves how much better we are than our forebears." whether with regard to recent history or past history.[1]
  1. ^ Simon Jenkins "Stop Apologising!" Guardian Online http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/mar/25/therecanbetoomuch Accessed 27.05.2009


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER APOLOGISE FOR CHILD ABUSE COMMITTED IN CARE HOMES- SPONSORED BY CARE MATTERS PARTNERSHIP


Black Armband History leads to Black Armband Politics


British history like Australian history can be argued to be the story of all of our people and not just made out to be more than a countries bad record. If we tar ourselves with an overly negative brush by apologising for every single thing then we drag public morale and perceptions down. This is what's known as the "black armband" view of things only seeing the worst aspects of our country rather than the best aspects of our country[1]
  1. ^ Melissa Nobles "The Politics of Official Apologies" Cambridge University 2008 First Edition pg 99 Accessed on Google Books http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TFd-0fcc6PUC&pg=RA1-PA97&lpg=RA1-PA97&dq=John+Howard+refusal+to+apologise&source=bl&ots=cmlFSHc98Q&sig=f80MR4RFvK2e1LrlNDlVhyn0EMU&hl=en&ei=Lg8dSsOzLdmZjAes5dWIDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#PRA1-PA99,M1 Accessed 27.05.2009




Vote on the overall debate: Should the British Prime Minister apologise for child abuse committed in care homes- Sponsored by Care Matters partnership

What do you think?  Vote on this debate below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
1. Provides partial closure and acknowledgement
# 1

Bertie Ahern's apology to those people in educational institutions provided two key things to people that have been cited as helping to heal victims of abuse . Firstly acknowledgement by the state at the highest level that it had made serious mistakes and errors in the past which had damaged its own citizens . Secondly it also provided partial closure to those victims that had been affected by abuse in that the state had apologised for it's role. Given that these two things were provided had helped , why is the prime minister Gordon Brown not providing things that could help heal a wound that has yet to heal for a lot of people affected.[1]
  1. ^ Matthew Huggins, Care Matters Partnership article

admin

|

06:09, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Would an apology really lead to closure or would it lead to claims for compensation. The abuse scandals in Australia have seen claims for compensation by individuals involved despite an apology by Pope Benedict XVI[1]. Admittedly the Catholic Church agreed to pay compensation in this case but it still opens the doors to compensation claims some unecessary that could divert funds that could be needed elsewhere.[2]
  1. ^ BBC Online News "Pope Sorry For Priests Abuse"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7515079.stm
  2. ^ BBC Online News "Record award for church abuse victims" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2042698.stm

admin

|

06:09, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14



2. Large amount of scandals across the UK indicates lack of national oversight and willingness to intervene
# 1

Aside from the Baby P scandal which happened outside of care the UK has had a significant amount of scandals happening across the UK. Some of which have attracted large amounts of conspiracies about secret service involvement such as the Kincora Boys Scandal[1].This" rel="nofollow">http://www.missingpersons-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/archive-kincorascandal.htm]].This was a child abuse scandal that occurred at a boys home in the 1980's where a large amount of child abuse was discovered to have occurred for a number of years . Although people were sentenced to time imprisonment , given the scale of the abuse and lack of oversight shouldn't there be an apology acknowledging the victims of this and other more recent incidents.[2]
  1. ^ Cairns Jim "The Kincora Scandal" ^ Wikipedia "Kincora Boys' Home" Accessed 27.05.09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys%27_Home

admin

|

06:25, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Even if the circumstances. An apology alone would not mean anything without full action behind it. So Brown could apologise but use the apology as a convenient way to "draw a line" at it and not launch an inquiry into abuse as well as strengthen oversight systems. An example of this could be said to be the Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper's apology for the abuse of residential schools abuse. While it was good it could be argued to be not enough as Canada has not signed the declaration of rights on Indigenous Peoples.[1]
  1. ^ "Harper apologizes for residential school abuse"http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080610/native_apology_080611/20080611?hub=TopStories

admin

|

06:25, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14



3. The man or woman at the top has ultimate responsibility
# 1

Even though Gordon Brown may not have been around for all of the time abuse has happened in care, he is head of the government and legislature. This means although power may have been delegated down to the various officials in the care system, the responsibility has not and ulitmately lies with him.

admin

|

06:43, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Due to our parliamentary structure Gordon Brown may be at the top but because of the autonomy given to local councils particuarly in health and social care in the past the responsibility lies with the leader of the county council who might I add is also an elected official. Therefore the leaders of County Councils should be the ones that should be apologising whether individually or as a group in public. An example of this is the leader of Haringey council George Meehan apologsing over the Baby P scandal. Maybe Brown should pressure or facilitate those leaders in to making an apology but he can not speak for them.[1]
  1. ^ "Haringey Apologises over Baby P" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7736566.stm

admin

|

06:43, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14



4. Following a strongly established treatment of leading figures in public life apologising.
# 1

There is a time honoured tradition of leaders of states, organisations etc apologising for the mistakes wrongful actions committed by those institutions in the past. Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd apologised on behalf of Parliament for the treatment of Australian Aborgines including those of the Stolen Generation in February 2008.[1]. Pope John Paul also apologised countless time including for abuse committed by the church priests even though he was not directly involved.[2]
  1. ^ http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/apology/text.htm
  2. ^ "Pope sends first e-mail apology" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1671540.stm

admin

|

11:58, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

There may well be a tradition of public figures apologising but sometimes for things they had no control over in the first place! To paraphrase Simon Jenkins "The point of history is not to cherry-pick incidents through which we can tell ourselves how much better we are than our forebears." whether with regard to recent history or past history.[1]
  1. ^ Simon Jenkins "Stop Apologising!" Guardian Online http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/mar/25/therecanbetoomuch Accessed 27.05.2009

admin

|

11:58, 22 May 09

|

Karma Score: 14



1. Black Armband History leads to Black Armband Politics
# 1

British history like Australian history can be argued to be the story of all of our people and not just made out to be more than a countries bad record. If we tar ourselves with an overly negative brush by apologising for every single thing then we drag public morale and perceptions down. This is what's known as the "black armband" view of things only seeing the worst aspects of our country rather than the best aspects of our country[1]
  1. ^ Melissa Nobles "The Politics of Official Apologies" Cambridge University 2008 First Edition pg 99 Accessed on Google Books http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TFd-0fcc6PUC&pg=RA1-PA97&lpg=RA1-PA97&dq=John+Howard+refusal+to+apologise&source=bl&ots=cmlFSHc98Q&sig=f80MR4RFvK2e1LrlNDlVhyn0EMU&hl=en&ei=Lg8dSsOzLdmZjAes5dWIDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#PRA1-PA99,M1 Accessed 27.05.2009

admin

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06:20, 27 May 09

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Karma Score: 14

|

Applause: 1



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