Modified:
18 Sep 2009
by Admin
Vote totals:
Yes:
0%
No:
100%
Neutral:
0%
Subscribe to This Debate
You are not currently subscribed to this debate.
Misc Debates
Subscribe to Newsletter
Tell a Friend
(Use commas to separate)
DEBATE: PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Posted by: lallybhoy
Karma:
457
The Home Office has today published a list of 'Britains least wanted' which contains the names of individuals that have been banned from entering the UK due to their 'fostering of hatred and extremism.' This is an overly totalitarian move from the British government which is tantamount to thought control.
Executive Summary
Join The Debate
All the Yes points
All the No points
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Government has no right to control peoples minds
This act is essentially a restriction on free speech. People should be allowed to enter the country regardless of their own personal opinions. If they make these views public when in Britain then the law should be enacted but not before. This view is supported by Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain. He commented that;
"If they step over the line and break the law, it's at that moment the law should be enacted, not beforehand. "If people are keeping their odious views to themselves, that's their business. We should not be in the business of policing people's minds."[1]
- ^ UK 'least wanted' list published, BBC News, 5th May 2009, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8033060.stm
The people on the list are those unlikely to keep their views to themselves, and are in fact more likely to express their views in the most dangerous contexts. Nobody is being banned from thinking thoughts.
The statement made is clearly that these people are welcome to their own views, just that we do not welcome them in Britain. In the case of the people on the so-called "least-wanted" list, all of them have already taken action which, if carried out in Britain, would have broken the law. They are not victims of political correctness gone mad, they are people who have chosen to make well known their thoughts and views and, more importantly, to attempt to enforce those views on others. And why is there no link to the referenced article in the debate heading? Is the person who started this debate trying to unfairly influence the debate by creating a fake 'Yes' point in the hope of gathering momentum for the 'Yes' column?
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Just because an opinion is offensive doesnt mean it is inciting hatred
There are some points that people may find offensive and may risk upsetting communities, but is that the same as promoting hatred? Western Democracy prides itself on the ability for different people to debate their issues, without fear that their opinions will lead to persecution. A recent example of this blurring of the line could perhaps be the right wing Dutch MP Geert Wilders who has been included in todays list. He made a very controversial movie called Fitna which linked the Koran to terrorism. His opponents would say that this is racist and anti Islamic, but his supporters would argue that many extremists and terrorists do in fact justify their actions through quotes from the Koran therefore it is something that should be debated.
There is a difference between making an unpopular point in a debate and outright attacking a group and actually encouraging one group to attack another. If a controversial point is made and a terrorist uses it to justify an attack on a group of people, it says more about the terrorist than the person who made the point.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
A ban helps extremists promote their views
Many of these extremists would be much less known if it was not for the publicity they get for being ‘extremist’. When the government labels someone extremist and bans them from entering the UK people wonder why, what have these people done? Media coverage means that these people become much better known than they would otherwise. This is particularly the case with figures like Geert Wilders who was banned from entering the UK for a screening of his anti-Islamic film Fitana, the film and Mr Wilders would probably have been hardly heard of if not for the ban. As it was his views reached a wide audience through the media.[1]
- ^ A ban that only helps extremists on both sides, 13th Feb 2009, http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-a-ban-that-only-helps-the-extremists-ndash-on-both-sides-1608169.html
A ban ensures that these people don’t get to incite hatred without the other side being heard. The media may publicise the banned extremists but they will also explain what they are being banned for and why their views are wrong.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
If we preach freedom of speech it is hypocritical to prevent others having theirs.
We regard freedom of speech as one of our core principles, it therefore seems particularly hypocritical to be banning people who’s main crime is to express an opinion. Should our freedom of speech just be ‘freedom to say anything that is innocuous and inoffensive’? No surely freedom of speech includes a freedom to offend. In this case we do not even know that these people if they were to visit the UK would want to exercise their freedom of speech (although it seems unlikely that they would not) so we are banning their freedom of movement on the basis that they might promote extremism if they get to the UK. This seems to be putting the cart before the horse. If they come here they should by all means be monitored and thrown out if they do promote such hatred that might lead to violence, on the other hand if they are happy to promote their views within the context of free debate then that should be fine.
Freedom of speech and freedom of movement can only be extended a certain distance, allowing these preachers of hatred their freedom of speech we allow them to help in denying that same right in others. Where they promote violence they are prepared to take those same rights (and more) from others – who may well not be involved in any way. There is a fine line between what is legitimate opinion (even if offensive) and what incites violence and is therefore attacking the freedoms of others.'Freedom of speech' is the First amendment in the U.S of A not the U.K. And even in the States acts of unpatriotic treason are not tolerated under any circumstances. The Brits would only be hypocritical if we actually believed in or legislated freedom of speech or Voltaire's 'I wholly disagree with what you are saying but will defend to the death your right to say it'.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Extremism and hatred should never be tolerated
While extremism and hatred should not be tolerated this does not mean that banning is the best way of dealing with the problem. They should be met with open debate at all times and their followers convinced that they are wrong. Banning just builds up grievances and does not open minds but closes them.
Many of the people in this list promote hatred and violence towards different sections of society. This is just as much an affront to free speech and a persons individual freedom, as it may intimidate a person from participating in an activity that they should be able to do freely in a democratic society. Britain has so far been too willing to tolerate such extremism. According to the telegraph we have “made it easy for non-violent extremists. It has meant that supporting Islamism, condemning parliamentary democracy, advocating the destruction of Israel and calling for jihad against British troops in Afghanistan or elsewhere has been tolerated because it is not directly violent.”[1] We must not continue to appease the promotion of hatred just because those promoting it are from an ethnic minority and therefore can fall back onto arguing that we are discriminating against them if we prevent such promotion of hatred. The Muslim community in particular has not been willing to confront the extremism in its midst so the state must. Banning those who promote such views from entering the UK is a good first step.
- ^ Ed Husain, We must stop appeasing Islamist extremism, 14th March 2009, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4991879/We-must-stop-appeasing-Islamist-extremism.html
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Some of these people would cause great distress if allowed to enter.
The UK has laws against inciting religious and racial hatred as well as violence and any person coming into the UK could be prosecuted and put away in prison if they violated those laws. If any person went came into the UK with the purpose of inciting hatred or violence then they would be subject to the same treatment that any resident who committed an offence would be.
Two of the people included on this list are Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps-Roper who are the leaders of the Westboro Baptist Church, which promotes hatred against homosexuality and in the past has picketed US soldiers funerals claiming that their deaths were punishment for United States tolerance of homosexuality, and has also targeted funerals of aids victims. This is the sort of hatred and intolerance that the list is trying to prevent spreading into the United Kingdom.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Prevention Is Better Than The Cure
We do need a cure. By stopping people who promote extremism from entering the UK we are not stopping the extremism itself. We are not stopping their promoting extremism over mediums such as the internet. Or through their followers that are already here. They themselves do not have to physically come to Britain to promote their views. Banning these people is therefore neither prevention nor cure.
This debate would not exist if these were members of Al-Qaeda or a similar group. In reality, they are the next best thing and the only reason they aren't locked up is that they themselves haven't physically hurt anyone. What we do know is that (especially in the case of Pastor Phelps) these people have created an atmosphere which itself incites violence and physical harm to people. This is not to mention the mental trauma that, sometimes very vulnerable people, are put through.
The question, therefore, is "Do we really want these people in Britain?", and I would challenge anybody to say yes. There is no way that they could be counted as beneficial members of society, and we have enough people already in the country without letting in the detritus cast from other nations. I would not like to have my tax money spent on punishing or extraditing these people in the future.
What do you think? Vote on this point below.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE BANNED FROM ENTERING THE UK DUE TO THIER OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS
Bans may slow down radicalisation
As young Muslims within the UK are already being radicalised we need to do whatever we can to slow this process down. Banning radical preachers reduces the number of recruiting sergeants for radicalism in Britain hopefully reducing the speed at which radicalism spreads. People with firsthand knowledge of radicalisation say that preachers do play a key role in preparing the susceptible for acts of violence so they have to be kept out of Britain if possible.[1]
- ^ A ban that only helps extremists on both sides, 13th Feb 2009, http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-a-ban-that-only-helps-the-extremists-ndash-on-both-sides-1608169.html
Vote on the overall debate: People should not be banned from entering the UK due to thier own personal opinions
What do you think? Vote on this debate below.

admin
|06:46, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|06:46, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|07:25, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|07:25, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|06:55, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|06:58, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|07:53, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|08:03, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|06:55, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|07:36, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|07:02, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|07:02, 05 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
admin
|05:23, 10 May 09
|Karma Score: 14
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|07:18, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply
booji
|06:42, 01 June 09
|Karma Score: 3085
Applaud
Quote
Flag
Reply