Modified:
27 Feb 2009
by Admin

Vote totals:

Yes:

100%

No:

0%

Neutral:

0%

 
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DEBATE: THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.

Money has proven itself to be the best mechanism for purchasing goods and services, it has long superseded bartering systems for good and well-established reasons. Money works, people understand it and know how to use it to value their own time and the time of others. It is the simplest system and thus the easiest to implement.





THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.


Not all skills are equal


An hour of time donated by a programmer with 10 years’ experience is worth more than an hour of time donated by a programmer with only 1 years’ experience. To say each should have equal value is to say their expertise is equal and the value they bring to a company is equal too.

By using virtual money as currency we reward experience and expertise, if we didn’t we risk getting only those people whose skill level matches the lowest common denominator for their trade.

During the Bootstrapping phase the experience and insight of someone with depth of experience can deliver a more compelling and engaging solution or contribution that further improves the likelihood of success in fund raising either because the value proposition being presented is better or the design concept, protoype, user interface or functionality is complelling and offers unique insights,

If I am in desperate need of a programmer, as many who will avail themselves of this service will be, then there is a natural flattening of the expertise curve. I don’t care if someone has five years’ or two years’ experience, I just need the job done. Most of the bootstrapping work will be done in order to secure investment, in which case the work doesn’t need to be high end it just needs to be good enough to demonstrate potential. By getting people who could charge £3,000 a day to donate their services we risk taking this beyond the reach of those to whom it is specifically targeted


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.


We all understand money already and its not confusing.


We all understand money already and its not confusing.



THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.


It makes easier to transition to a more traditional business model as value is established


People will invest this way because they believe in the process and the potential success of the idea or concept being developed, as that idea / business grows and secures funding or commercial revenue streams from its monetisation strategy it will be easier to transition into a more classical supplier / client model as the value has been established using normal currency instruments.



THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.


Problems with VAT


Bartercard has found a way around this system, we should be able to copy their model. In addition, many bootstrapping enterprises will not be VAT registered or will be on the cash accounting system meaning they pay VAT only when their invoices are paid – ie never

This would create challenges for VAT registered firms working for non VAT registered firms at some point. The critical thing is for a company or individual to be following a cash accounting approach to VAT it means you only pay your VAT once you are paid by client and you only claim once you have paid an invoice.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/account-basics.htm#2

HM Revenue and Customs don’t care that you’re not getting paid cold hard cash for your time. Any business that is VAT registered must legally charge VAT in any exchange of services. This could have huge negative implications on the uptake of the barter system and may prevent it getting off the ground.

Bartercard position on this is if you are VAT registered, or buy from a VAT registered member, VAT has to be added (and accounted for) on all relevant transactions. HMCR only accept money! You can however calim back VAT levied by a barter and get cash for it from HMRC


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.


Time is egalitarian


Egalitarian approach pre-supposes that people are not generating income in other areas for cash paid work or are indepently wealthy or being supported financially by someone else. In many cases the choice to provide time either for pro-bono work e.g. charitable activities or on a sweat equity basis is in many cases going to be a choice not earn cash somewhere else from a paying client or it is going to be done instead of more traditional business development activity.

We all have the same amount of time in a day, we all have needs and skills to trade to get those needs met. A time-based system is far more fair than one based on money. It meets fundamental community objectives and creates a system of equality that is essential to get this thing off the ground


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

THE UNIT OF CURRENCY FOR THE BOOTSTRAPCAMP BARTER SYSTEM SHOULD BE VIRTUAL MONEY, NOT TIME.


A money-based market already exists - the real one


The value of BootStrap is to enable people to trade skills, not money.

If you want to do work for money, there is an open market in which you can find work. If you want to hire someone to do work for money, again the open market is there for you. BootStrap is aiming to be something different, not replicate this existing market.

You might suggest that BootStrap is about the social network and personal recommendations, but again this already exists (e.g. Twittering "can anyone recommend a PHP developer?") and there is no need to build it again.

Someone made the point at the first BootStrapCamp meeting that money has already been invented. Using virtual money is just a complicated way of using real money.




Vote on the overall debate: The unit of currency for the BootStrapCamp barter system should be virtual money, not time.

What do you think?  Vote on this debate below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
1. Not all skills are equal
# 1

An hour of time donated by a programmer with 10 years’ experience is worth more than an hour of time donated by a programmer with only 1 years’ experience. To say each should have equal value is to say their expertise is equal and the value they bring to a company is equal too.

By using virtual money as currency we reward experience and expertise, if we didn’t we risk getting only those people whose skill level matches the lowest common denominator for their trade.

During the Bootstrapping phase the experience and insight of someone with depth of experience can deliver a more compelling and engaging solution or contribution that further improves the likelihood of success in fund raising either because the value proposition being presented is better or the design concept, protoype, user interface or functionality is complelling and offers unique insights,

admin

|

14:38, 26 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

If I am in desperate need of a programmer, as many who will avail themselves of this service will be, then there is a natural flattening of the expertise curve. I don’t care if someone has five years’ or two years’ experience, I just need the job done. Most of the bootstrapping work will be done in order to secure investment, in which case the work doesn’t need to be high end it just needs to be good enough to demonstrate potential. By getting people who could charge £3,000 a day to donate their services we risk taking this beyond the reach of those to whom it is specifically targeted

admin

|

14:38, 26 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14



2. We all understand money already and its not confusing.
# 1

We all understand money already and its not confusing.

admin

|

06:11, 27 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14



3. It makes easier to transition to a more traditional business model as value is established
# 1

People will invest this way because they believe in the process and the potential success of the idea or concept being developed, as that idea / business grows and secures funding or commercial revenue streams from its monetisation strategy it will be easier to transition into a more classical supplier / client model as the value has been established using normal currency instruments.

admin

|

07:37, 27 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14



1. Problems with VAT
# 1

HM Revenue and Customs don’t care that you’re not getting paid cold hard cash for your time. Any business that is VAT registered must legally charge VAT in any exchange of services. This could have huge negative implications on the uptake of the barter system and may prevent it getting off the ground.

Bartercard position on this is if you are VAT registered, or buy from a VAT registered member, VAT has to be added (and accounted for) on all relevant transactions. HMCR only accept money! You can however calim back VAT levied by a barter and get cash for it from HMRC

admin

|

14:39, 26 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Bartercard has found a way around this system, we should be able to copy their model. In addition, many bootstrapping enterprises will not be VAT registered or will be on the cash accounting system meaning they pay VAT only when their invoices are paid – ie never

This would create challenges for VAT registered firms working for non VAT registered firms at some point. The critical thing is for a company or individual to be following a cash accounting approach to VAT it means you only pay your VAT once you are paid by client and you only claim once you have paid an invoice.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/account-basics.htm#2

admin

|

14:39, 26 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14



2. Time is egalitarian
# 1

We all have the same amount of time in a day, we all have needs and skills to trade to get those needs met. A time-based system is far more fair than one based on money. It meets fundamental community objectives and creates a system of equality that is essential to get this thing off the ground

admin

|

14:43, 26 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Egalitarian approach pre-supposes that people are not generating income in other areas for cash paid work or are indepently wealthy or being supported financially by someone else. In many cases the choice to provide time either for pro-bono work e.g. charitable activities or on a sweat equity basis is in many cases going to be a choice not earn cash somewhere else from a paying client or it is going to be done instead of more traditional business development activity.

admin

|

14:43, 26 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14



3. A money-based market already exists - the real one
# 1

The value of BootStrap is to enable people to trade skills, not money.

If you want to do work for money, there is an open market in which you can find work. If you want to hire someone to do work for money, again the open market is there for you. BootStrap is aiming to be something different, not replicate this existing market.

You might suggest that BootStrap is about the social network and personal recommendations, but again this already exists (e.g. Twittering "can anyone recommend a PHP developer?") and there is no need to build it again.

Someone made the point at the first BootStrapCamp meeting that money has already been invented. Using virtual money is just a complicated way of using real money.

admin

|

11:17, 27 February 09

|

Karma Score: 14



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