- + Petar Antevski voted on a point for the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Elena Porjazova voted on a point for the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Erinliddicoat voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Soominchoi joined Debatewise
- + Arnavnarian voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Superman237 voted on a point for the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Superman237 voted on a point for the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Support.Xfx joined Debatewise
- + Explonential joined Central London Debating Society
- + Erinliddicoat voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Maparent joined Debatewise
- + Crissieboy joined Debatewise
- + Superman237 voted on the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Superman237 joined Debatewise
- + Golmindalin joined Debatewise
- + Elena Porjazova voted on a point for the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Arnavnarian voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Jiwoo Cj 1127 voted on the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Nemothe Emo joined Debatewise
- + Thebabeofbengal edited the debate Are women superior to men?
- + Nemothe Emo voted on the debate The Candidate Countries Should Be Fast-Tracked To EU Membership In 2012
- + Erinliddicoat voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Loretta voted on the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Erinliddicoat voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
- + Arnavnarian voted on a point for the debate Foreign workers should be given the right to vote in local elections where they work.
IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE EXPELLED FROM THE UK AFTER THEIR FOUR YEAR WORK PERMITS EXPIRE
In order to address problems with overcrowding and strain on public services, a cross party group has devised a new immigration scheme. Full proposals are to be unveiled on Tuesday. The proposals aim to reduce the number of non EU immigrants entering the country. The proposals are necessary but there are concerns that the proposals may have adverse effects
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
Yes, because... The UK population is growing at too large a rate.
A solution is needed to slow down the rapid growth of the population in the UK. “current projections suggesting it [the population] could rise to 78.6 million by the middle of the century”. ( Toby Helm (2008) "expel immigrants after four years says report" [online] available;http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/07/immigration.visas) The reason for this rapid growth is the huge influx of immigrants into this country. Unlike New Zealand there is little restriction in place to prevent huge numbers of immigrants entering Britain. Over population would not help existing problems of unemployment. The new proposals include a quota on the number of non eu immigrants entering the country.
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
Yes, because... The UK cannot afford to take in both EU and non-EU immigrants.
There needs to be a limitation on the numbers of non-EU immigrants entering the UK because there are only so many jobs available and the UK cannot keep accommodating for everyone. In addition public services; healthcare, education and housing are strained already. If there is no limitation on the number of immigrants entering Britain then there will be more strain on these services in the future. Although the UK cannot control the numbers of EU immigrants entering the country it can and must control the numbers of non- EU immigrants.
The NHS would be under even greater strain wereit not for non-EU migrants. In fact, the NHS was pretty much saved by such immigrants filling up all the nursing employment gaps. To then shut all non-EU immigrants out claiming that they are putting a strain on an instiution their labour went towards building up is more than a little unfair. Why not instead throw out those who have done nothing to help the NHS, the voluntarily unemployed maybe a good starting point.
Vote on this point: The UK cannot afford to take in both EU and non-EU immigrants.
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
Yes, because... The new proposals are well thought out.
Far from deterring skilled workers, it would allow the very best workers; those with 'exceptional intellectual, scientific or artistic merit' (ibid) to stay in Britain after their four year work permit expires. If immigrants knew that they had to prove their skills in order to remain in Britain, then surely this would be a motivation for them to work harder in their jobs, thus helping the economy. However, there is still a setback for those exceptional workers. They can only stay if the quota is not violated. Would this be too much of a deterrent for skilled workers?
Hitler had a well thought out plan too but I see no one praising him for his ideas! Communism is also a very well thought out idea, cupturing people from the outside-in is very innovative, but it does not work. So who is to say that just because this immigrant plan is well thought out that it will work?
Vote on this point: The new proposals are well thought out.
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
Yes, because... Not enough space
It is estimated that by 2031, if immigration policies do not change we will need 7 cities the size of Birmingham! There simply is not enough room for this in our already over populated nation. By basing an immigration system on the skills that we are in short supply of only we will only need to make room for those who we truly need. Once the short fall has been filled, after 4 years the non-EU citizens can return home after making a healthy profit out of their time in Britain.
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
.
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
No, because... Temporary grants would deter the best workers.
Perhaps this would be better for the British economy if the best workers were deterred. That way the government would have to spend more money on the training of British citizens to fill such positions, leaving Britain with a better educated and trained work force. Then, there would be more low paid, unskilled jobs available, jobs which need little training, and the immigrants can assume these employment positions for four years.
It simply is not fair to allow a person to enter a new country, find a new job and build a new life for four years and then take it away from them. If an immigrant knew they would not be able to call this country their home it would deter them from integrating properly into this country. In fact this would probably make Britain their last choice. Instead, skilled workers would prefer to enter a country that would fully accept them and motivate them to be successful. As a result the immigrants with little skill would be attracted here.
Vote on this point: Temporary grants would deter the best workers.
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
No, because... Immigrants are vital for the UK.
The taxes that these immigrants would pay would not cover the costs of hosting them in Britain. If immigration is not impeded by this 4 year scheme, we will need 7 cities the size of Birmingham to house them all by 2031.
To get these 7 cities, we would have to cut into the country side and agricultural land. This would mean a reduction in food production at a time when we had reached an all time peak in population.
As for the training aspect of immigrant workers, they will have to have a full competancy of English before they would be allowed to work in Britain under the Feild-Soames model, so they would not need to be encouraged to learn English whilst in Britain.
You are also misled in your perception of employment in modern Britain if you think employers are not adept to training up employees every four years. There are plenty of jobs where staff turnover is so high that yearly training is needed.
Both skilled and unskilled immigrants are a great help to their British employers. Far from being a liability, they will work hard for their wages and do jobs that most people would turn their noses up to! It would be an unnecessary nuisance for employers to have to continuously recruit every four years when they already have competent staff. Moreover it would deem any training and chance to learn new skills futile. Immigrants would not be able to better themselves or learn new skills that would benefit them in their future careers. In addition the government should remember that immigrants are beneficial to Britain. They should encourage those skilled workers that are allowed to remain here by encouraging them to learn English or skills for their jobs.
Vote on this point: Immigrants are vital for the UK.
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
No, because... During four years immigrants will contribute to the economy.
The taxes and National Insurance that immigrants will pay during their four year work permit will be money well spent for those four years. They will reap the benefits from those taxes by being cared for by the NHS and being protected by the police and firefighters. They are instantaneous benefits from paying taxes, they do not have to stay more than four years to get their money's worth.
Immigrants will have to earn a living and pay taxes the same as everyone else. It is only right that they should be allowed to stay on and continue contributing to the economy and having access to healthcare and everything else we take for granted
Vote on this point: During four years immigrants will contribute to the economy.
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
No, because... This policy is divisive
Because society hasn't advanced since Queen Victoria was on the throne. People accept that immigrants, foreigners and those who are different bring contributions to our country. That is not the debate. The debate is whether they are financially beneficial to Britain when not working. They may well be working, but given that their work permit has expired, they will definitely not be paying taxes. And given the current trend in unemployment, there are very few employment gaps that cannot be filled by people who are legally allowed to be here.
It has always been the case that immigrants, ‘foreigners’, those who are different, are used as scapegoats. The Irish were blamed for British poverty in the C19th , and now immigrants are being blamed for anything negative in Britain. Immigrants do make positive contributions to society, not only do they pay taxes, and fill jobs which would otherwise remain empty, but they also add to our multicultural nation. They provide us with variety and knowledge, harmony is what is needed, not this hostile attitude.
Vote on this point: This policy is divisive
See history of changes to this point
Immigrants should be expelled from the UK after their four year work permits expire
No, because... It will discourage foreign nationals from studying here
We must take note that most non-EU immigrants currently in the UK are graduates of British universities. This indicates that prior to legal employment; they have already been living in the UK for more than 3 years (for a Bachelor's degree student at least). As the Home Office favours applicants with British qualifications to apply for work permits, the proposed scheme will certainly deter potential students outside of EU to choose to study in the UK. This is because they would certainly like to kick-start their careers in the country that they graduate from to gain the necessary skills before returning home eventually. Hence, in the long run, the proposed scheme will bring about loss of income to the country as there would be fewer non-EU students who would want to study in the UK, as well as less professional immigrant employees to contribute to the economy of UK (by paying tax).
Point 1. The UK population is growing at too large a rate.
A solution is needed to slow down the rapid growth of the population in the UK. “current projections suggesting it [the population] could rise to 78.6 million by the middle of the century”. ( Toby Helm (2008) "expel immigrants after four years says report" [online] available;http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/07/immigration.visas) The reason for this rapid growth is the huge influx of immigrants into this country. Unlike New Zealand there is little restriction in place to prevent huge numbers of immigrants entering Britain. Over population would not help existing problems of unemployment. The new proposals include a quota on the number of non eu immigrants entering the country.
Point 2. The UK cannot afford to take in both EU and non-EU immigrants.
There needs to be a limitation on the numbers of non-EU immigrants entering the UK because there are only so many jobs available and the UK cannot keep accommodating for everyone. In addition public services; healthcare, education and housing are strained already. If there is no limitation on the number of immigrants entering Britain then there will be more strain on these services in the future. Although the UK cannot control the numbers of EU immigrants entering the country it can and must control the numbers of non- EU immigrants.
The NHS would be under even greater strain wereit not for non-EU migrants. In fact, the NHS was pretty much saved by such immigrants filling up all the nursing employment gaps. To then shut all non-EU immigrants out claiming that they are putting a strain on an instiution their labour went towards building up is more than a little unfair. Why not instead throw out those who have done nothing to help the NHS, the voluntarily unemployed maybe a good starting point.
Point 3. The new proposals are well thought out.
Far from deterring skilled workers, it would allow the very best workers; those with 'exceptional intellectual, scientific or artistic merit' (ibid) to stay in Britain after their four year work permit expires. If immigrants knew that they had to prove their skills in order to remain in Britain, then surely this would be a motivation for them to work harder in their jobs, thus helping the economy. However, there is still a setback for those exceptional workers. They can only stay if the quota is not violated. Would this be too much of a deterrent for skilled workers?
Hitler had a well thought out plan too but I see no one praising him for his ideas! Communism is also a very well thought out idea, cupturing people from the outside-in is very innovative, but it does not work. So who is to say that just because this immigrant plan is well thought out that it will work?
Point 4. Not enough space
It is estimated that by 2031, if immigration policies do not change we will need 7 cities the size of Birmingham! There simply is not enough room for this in our already over populated nation. By basing an immigration system on the skills that we are in short supply of only we will only need to make room for those who we truly need. Once the short fall has been filled, after 4 years the non-EU citizens can return home after making a healthy profit out of their time in Britain.
Point 5. .
.
Point 1. Temporary grants would deter the best workers.
It simply is not fair to allow a person to enter a new country, find a new job and build a new life for four years and then take it away from them. If an immigrant knew they would not be able to call this country their home it would deter them from integrating properly into this country. In fact this would probably make Britain their last choice. Instead, skilled workers would prefer to enter a country that would fully accept them and motivate them to be successful. As a result the immigrants with little skill would be attracted here.
Perhaps this would be better for the British economy if the best workers were deterred. That way the government would have to spend more money on the training of British citizens to fill such positions, leaving Britain with a better educated and trained work force. Then, there would be more low paid, unskilled jobs available, jobs which need little training, and the immigrants can assume these employment positions for four years.
Point 2. Immigrants are vital for the UK.
Both skilled and unskilled immigrants are a great help to their British employers. Far from being a liability, they will work hard for their wages and do jobs that most people would turn their noses up to! It would be an unnecessary nuisance for employers to have to continuously recruit every four years when they already have competent staff. Moreover it would deem any training and chance to learn new skills futile. Immigrants would not be able to better themselves or learn new skills that would benefit them in their future careers. In addition the government should remember that immigrants are beneficial to Britain. They should encourage those skilled workers that are allowed to remain here by encouraging them to learn English or skills for their jobs.
The taxes that these immigrants would pay would not cover the costs of hosting them in Britain. If immigration is not impeded by this 4 year scheme, we will need 7 cities the size of Birmingham to house them all by 2031.
To get these 7 cities, we would have to cut into the country side and agricultural land. This would mean a reduction in food production at a time when we had reached an all time peak in population.
As for the training aspect of immigrant workers, they will have to have a full competancy of English before they would be allowed to work in Britain under the Feild-Soames model, so they would not need to be encouraged to learn English whilst in Britain.
You are also misled in your perception of employment in modern Britain if you think employers are not adept to training up employees every four years. There are plenty of jobs where staff turnover is so high that yearly training is needed.
Point 3. During four years immigrants will contribute to the economy.
Immigrants will have to earn a living and pay taxes the same as everyone else. It is only right that they should be allowed to stay on and continue contributing to the economy and having access to healthcare and everything else we take for granted
The taxes and National Insurance that immigrants will pay during their four year work permit will be money well spent for those four years. They will reap the benefits from those taxes by being cared for by the NHS and being protected by the police and firefighters. They are instantaneous benefits from paying taxes, they do not have to stay more than four years to get their money's worth.
Point 4. This policy is divisive
It has always been the case that immigrants, ‘foreigners’, those who are different, are used as scapegoats. The Irish were blamed for British poverty in the C19th , and now immigrants are being blamed for anything negative in Britain. Immigrants do make positive contributions to society, not only do they pay taxes, and fill jobs which would otherwise remain empty, but they also add to our multicultural nation. They provide us with variety and knowledge, harmony is what is needed, not this hostile attitude.
Because society hasn't advanced since Queen Victoria was on the throne. People accept that immigrants, foreigners and those who are different bring contributions to our country. That is not the debate. The debate is whether they are financially beneficial to Britain when not working. They may well be working, but given that their work permit has expired, they will definitely not be paying taxes. And given the current trend in unemployment, there are very few employment gaps that cannot be filled by people who are legally allowed to be here.
Point 5. It will discourage foreign nationals from studying here
We must take note that most non-EU immigrants currently in the UK are graduates of British universities. This indicates that prior to legal employment; they have already been living in the UK for more than 3 years (for a Bachelor's degree student at least). As the Home Office favours applicants with British qualifications to apply for work permits, the proposed scheme will certainly deter potential students outside of EU to choose to study in the UK. This is because they would certainly like to kick-start their careers in the country that they graduate from to gain the necessary skills before returning home eventually. Hence, in the long run, the proposed scheme will bring about loss of income to the country as there would be fewer non-EU students who would want to study in the UK, as well as less professional immigrant employees to contribute to the economy of UK (by paying tax).