Modified:
01 Nov 2009
by Admin

Vote totals:

Yes:

13%

No:

63%

Neutral:

25%

 
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DEBATE: SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?

Should Union move to uncontested scrummaging or is the game better for the scrum?





SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?


The scrum has the potential to cause serious injury


The force exerted on the vulnerable neck and spine area by scrummage poses an unacceptable risk to health. A collapsed scrum is one of the chief causes of injury. More than 100 players registered with the RFU have been paralysed by injuries sustained in the game and there are more than 36,000 schoolboy injuries every year. An Australian medical journal found that 7 out of the 23 acute spinal cord injuries sustained between 1997 and 2002 were as a result of a collapsed scrum.

Rugby is a contact sport, and that is of course going to carry risks. Yet statistically the chance of sustaining a catastrophic injury playing rugby is less than one in 100,000 (0.84 to be precise). This makes it less dangerous than horse riding, biking or driving a car. Furthermore, less than half of serious neck injuries occur in the scrum; tackling or falling from a lineout are more likely causes. So Rugby Union is not that great a risk to health, and even if we did want to reduce that risk, removing contested scrummage would not be the solution.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?


The scrum contributes little to the game


Top coach Alan Jones, who trained the Australian national side in the 1980s, has gone on record claiming that the scrum is not worth the dangers involved. The ball very rarely changes hands as a result of a scrum, so it does little to progress the game. Therefore it is not worth risking the strain it places on players' bodies.

The scrum is an essential part of the game of Rugby Union. It is a means to restart play. It also brings an added element into the game, requiring forwards to be both strong and skilled in order to make ground in the scrum.

Removing the scrum would mean that teams could get away with using less high quality forwards and would drag the standard of the sport down. Rugby is about contact; without the scrum it would not be the same game.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?


Rugby players are getting larger


As advances in training techniques and nutrition, along with general trends towards increasing height, produce ever taller and more muscular player, the forces involved in the scrum are increasing. With greater strength pushing against eachother, the risk of injuries in the scrum can only become more severe.

It isn't the levels of strength involved that pose a risk, but the way they are employed. Mere strength isn't going to make a scrum collapse; poor technique, or a weak point in the scrum are more likely to pose a risk. Stronger players should, with good training, be able to produce a more stable scrum.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?


All sports carry risks; that is an unavoidable part of competing


Just because risks cannot be entirely eliminated doesn't mean we should not make an effort to minimise them. In any high risk situation participants take safety precautions. By eliminating the biggest dangers of injury in the scrum, players can still enjoy the physical challenge of rugby while reducing their risk of harm.

Whoever is reading this is really, really obsessed (unless you're in speech and debate or something)

Any activity poses a safety risk; the only way to eliminate them is to spend our lives lying perfectly still! Rugby scrums are hardly the most risky situation that sportspeople enter into.

The Olympic sport of equestrian eventing, for instance, has caused twelve fatalities in the past year amongst both experienced and newer riders. Yet people still wish to compete; they are willing to run the risk in order to achieve success.

People risk life and limb engaging in 'extreme' sports all over the world. From base jumping to free diving, sportspeople push their bodies to the limit and risk injury in order to break records and expand the boundaries of human capability. The point is that they run these risks knowingly and willingly, just like rugby players do. Sport can never be 100% 'safe'- and if it was, it would be neither competitive nor fun.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?


YOU ARE REALL DUMB


eu penso que você é realmente estúpido desde que você está falando em portugese e aquele não é justo mesmo que eu igualmente esteja falando em portugese mas aprovação que boa eu supor nós somos ambos meio e eu sei você usou um tradutor mas eu supor que são aprovado demasiado porque eu sou também bom mim supor que nós somos ambos os tapeadores e que é um fato oh bem, oh bom (Las conversaciones anteriores están en portugese, así que usted puede traducirlo si usted quiere)

naturalmente i' m que fala sobre você, você pequeno-er otário-fucker Você acredita-o é normal falar sobre mim, mim pequeno-er otário-fucker? você é um pequeno-otário-fucker Talvez você gostaria de ser um pequeno-otário-fucker? OH MEU NO. DA DEUSA!!!!! Você não está dizendo nenhum justo ser negativo? OH MEU NO. DA DEUSA!!!! Vindo, vindo, explique seus pensamentos. eu penso que você é realmente, realmente mudo. Satisfá-lo acreditar que eu sou realmente, realmente mudo?


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

SHOULD RUGBY UNION MOVE TO UNCONTESTED SCRUMMAGING?


Rugby just would not be rugby anymore.


The ball is trapped in a maul. A player has been injured. There is no obvious evidence as to which side had the advantage before a stoppage of play occurs. If only we had a reasonably neutral, easy and quick way to keep play flowing. Oh wait- we do!

The scrum has been part of the core of the Rugby Union game for 157 years. In that time, there have been very few injuries by comparison to any other aspect of the game, and indeed any other sport. In Rugby League the scrum is uncontested; how silly to see fourteen men stooped down leaning on each other as the scrum-half essentially rolls the ball through the legs of the flanker back to himself.

The Rugby World Cup has been around sicne 1987, involving over 125 countries. In that time, the worst of injuries was to Max Brito (Ivory Coast) during a ruck-not a scrum- when he was inflicted with total quadruplegla. Only one other injury has come anywhere near as bad, in the case of an Australian prop in 2003. In this occasion again it was not a scrum but a maul, and his shouts of "neck, neck" promted the other players to stop applying pressure immediately. He received no injury, other than a not-so-premature end to his playing career.

The concerns of players, parents and coaches alike have been taken into account by the RFU, who have insisted that scrummaging players must be suitably trained and that more substitutes for those in the scrum on the bench are present. The threat has been notified and dealt with.

Only at the top level, where players are trained immaculately does the ball so rarely change possession in a scrum. At schoolboy level it is far less co-ordinated, far less boringly predictable and far less dangerous than people make out.

In 2008, Wales famously won the 6 Nations grandslam. However, in their final game against France, they were dangerously close to losing. There was a French scrum just five metres from their line. The ball was put in. the french backs lined up to perform a set move that would surely score the winning try. the Welsh fought, pushed hard and turned over the scrum. They won the trophy that was rightfully theirs, and it would not have happened if the scrum was uncontested.

Rugby is a hard game to referee and manage. The scrum provides the referee with a way of fairly restarting play and letting players get on with the game. How boring would it be to give penalties and free kicks all the time? The scrum ties in forwards allowing tactical use of positioning players. Removing options like this would reduce it to a dull, low scoring contest like football.

The "game for all classes" will not continue to be so if one of the core values is taken out. What motivation is there to train, to work hard, to push with all your might if that aspect is removed? The game of rugby will not be rugby without the traditional forwards contest which is the scrum.




Vote on the overall debate: Should Rugby Union move to uncontested scrummaging?

What do you think?  Vote on this debate below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
1. The scrum has the potential to cause serious injury
# 1

The force exerted on the vulnerable neck and spine area by scrummage poses an unacceptable risk to health. A collapsed scrum is one of the chief causes of injury. More than 100 players registered with the RFU have been paralysed by injuries sustained in the game and there are more than 36,000 schoolboy injuries every year. An Australian medical journal found that 7 out of the 23 acute spinal cord injuries sustained between 1997 and 2002 were as a result of a collapsed scrum.

admin

|

09:18, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Rugby is a contact sport, and that is of course going to carry risks. Yet statistically the chance of sustaining a catastrophic injury playing rugby is less than one in 100,000 (0.84 to be precise). This makes it less dangerous than horse riding, biking or driving a car. Furthermore, less than half of serious neck injuries occur in the scrum; tackling or falling from a lineout are more likely causes. So Rugby Union is not that great a risk to health, and even if we did want to reduce that risk, removing contested scrummage would not be the solution.

admin

|

09:18, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14



2. The scrum contributes little to the game
# 1

Top coach Alan Jones, who trained the Australian national side in the 1980s, has gone on record claiming that the scrum is not worth the dangers involved. The ball very rarely changes hands as a result of a scrum, so it does little to progress the game. Therefore it is not worth risking the strain it places on players' bodies.

admin

|

09:39, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

The scrum is an essential part of the game of Rugby Union. It is a means to restart play. It also brings an added element into the game, requiring forwards to be both strong and skilled in order to make ground in the scrum.

Removing the scrum would mean that teams could get away with using less high quality forwards and would drag the standard of the sport down. Rugby is about contact; without the scrum it would not be the same game.

admin

|

09:39, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14



3. Rugby players are getting larger
# 1

As advances in training techniques and nutrition, along with general trends towards increasing height, produce ever taller and more muscular player, the forces involved in the scrum are increasing. With greater strength pushing against eachother, the risk of injuries in the scrum can only become more severe.

admin

|

09:48, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

It isn't the levels of strength involved that pose a risk, but the way they are employed. Mere strength isn't going to make a scrum collapse; poor technique, or a weak point in the scrum are more likely to pose a risk. Stronger players should, with good training, be able to produce a more stable scrum.

admin

|

09:48, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14



1. All sports carry risks; that is an unavoidable part of competing
# 1

Any activity poses a safety risk; the only way to eliminate them is to spend our lives lying perfectly still! Rugby scrums are hardly the most risky situation that sportspeople enter into.

The Olympic sport of equestrian eventing, for instance, has caused twelve fatalities in the past year amongst both experienced and newer riders. Yet people still wish to compete; they are willing to run the risk in order to achieve success.

People risk life and limb engaging in 'extreme' sports all over the world. From base jumping to free diving, sportspeople push their bodies to the limit and risk injury in order to break records and expand the boundaries of human capability. The point is that they run these risks knowingly and willingly, just like rugby players do. Sport can never be 100% 'safe'- and if it was, it would be neither competitive nor fun.

admin

|

10:19, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

Just because risks cannot be entirely eliminated doesn't mean we should not make an effort to minimise them. In any high risk situation participants take safety precautions. By eliminating the biggest dangers of injury in the scrum, players can still enjoy the physical challenge of rugby while reducing their risk of harm.

Whoever is reading this is really, really obsessed (unless you're in speech and debate or something)

admin

|

10:19, 25 July 08

|

Karma Score: 14



2. YOU ARE REALL DUMB
# 1

naturalmente i' m que fala sobre você, você pequeno-er otário-fucker Você acredita-o é normal falar sobre mim, mim pequeno-er otário-fucker? você é um pequeno-otário-fucker Talvez você gostaria de ser um pequeno-otário-fucker? OH MEU NO. DA DEUSA!!!!! Você não está dizendo nenhum justo ser negativo? OH MEU NO. DA DEUSA!!!! Vindo, vindo, explique seus pensamentos. eu penso que você é realmente, realmente mudo. Satisfá-lo acreditar que eu sou realmente, realmente mudo?

admin

|

20:43, 26 November 08

|

Karma Score: 14


# 2

eu penso que você é realmente estúpido desde que você está falando em portugese e aquele não é justo mesmo que eu igualmente esteja falando em portugese mas aprovação que boa eu supor nós somos ambos meio e eu sei você usou um tradutor mas eu supor que são aprovado demasiado porque eu sou também bom mim supor que nós somos ambos os tapeadores e que é um fato oh bem, oh bom (Las conversaciones anteriores están en portugese, así que usted puede traducirlo si usted quiere)

admin

|

20:43, 26 November 08

|

Karma Score: 14



3. Rugby just would not be rugby anymore.
# 1

The ball is trapped in a maul. A player has been injured. There is no obvious evidence as to which side had the advantage before a stoppage of play occurs. If only we had a reasonably neutral, easy and quick way to keep play flowing. Oh wait- we do!

The scrum has been part of the core of the Rugby Union game for 157 years. In that time, there have been very few injuries by comparison to any other aspect of the game, and indeed any other sport. In Rugby League the scrum is uncontested; how silly to see fourteen men stooped down leaning on each other as the scrum-half essentially rolls the ball through the legs of the flanker back to himself.

The Rugby World Cup has been around sicne 1987, involving over 125 countries. In that time, the worst of injuries was to Max Brito (Ivory Coast) during a ruck-not a scrum- when he was inflicted with total quadruplegla. Only one other injury has come anywhere near as bad, in the case of an Australian prop in 2003. In this occasion again it was not a scrum but a maul, and his shouts of "neck, neck" promted the other players to stop applying pressure immediately. He received no injury, other than a not-so-premature end to his playing career.

The concerns of players, parents and coaches alike have been taken into account by the RFU, who have insisted that scrummaging players must be suitably trained and that more substitutes for those in the scrum on the bench are present. The threat has been notified and dealt with.

Only at the top level, where players are trained immaculately does the ball so rarely change possession in a scrum. At schoolboy level it is far less co-ordinated, far less boringly predictable and far less dangerous than people make out.

In 2008, Wales famously won the 6 Nations grandslam. However, in their final game against France, they were dangerously close to losing. There was a French scrum just five metres from their line. The ball was put in. the french backs lined up to perform a set move that would surely score the winning try. the Welsh fought, pushed hard and turned over the scrum. They won the trophy that was rightfully theirs, and it would not have happened if the scrum was uncontested.

Rugby is a hard game to referee and manage. The scrum provides the referee with a way of fairly restarting play and letting players get on with the game. How boring would it be to give penalties and free kicks all the time? The scrum ties in forwards allowing tactical use of positioning players. Removing options like this would reduce it to a dull, low scoring contest like football.

The "game for all classes" will not continue to be so if one of the core values is taken out. What motivation is there to train, to work hard, to push with all your might if that aspect is removed? The game of rugby will not be rugby without the traditional forwards contest which is the scrum.

Steve Black

|

20:09, 01 November 09

|

Karma Score: 10



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