One nation under god, leave it in or take it out?
The American Pledge of Allegiance has been embroiled in controversy ever since the phrase "under God" was added by Congress in 1954, following a campaign by the Knights of Columbus to change it. The Pledge, as it was conceived initially by Francis Bellamy in 1892, did not include the phrase. It read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." From 1954 onward, the pledge would read: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
The debate regarding the phrase "under God" revolves around a number of questions. Mainly, the debate regards whether it is consistent with the separation of Church and State, or the Establishment Clause in the United States Constitution? Does it establish or favor a particular form of religious belief? Does it give favor to believers over non-believers? Should we allow for leniency here? Is the phrase consistent with the use of religious wording by the Founding Fathers in certain founding documents such as the Declaration of Independence? Is it legitimate to consider our rights as endowed by a creator, and include this interpretation in everything that follows in the US Constitution and things like the Pledge of Allegiance? Is the Pledge more of a cultural or historic expression than a religious expression or prayer? Is it more about affirming the historic place of faith in American history and in the lives of the Founding Fathers? Is it an important expression of patriotism, or can such patriotism be sufficiently expressed without "under God"? Does "under God" put inappropriate pressure on citizens and Children in school to profess a belief in God? Is it coercive? Would getting rid of "under God" eliminate the controversy, or would it worsen it? What is the overall balance of pros and cons? Should "under God" remain, or should it be eliminated from the American Pledge of Allegiance? (courtesy of debatepedia)
You can also add to the debate by leaving a comment at the end of the page.
The words “under God” were added as a form of respect, all atheist are free to recite the words or not. The founding fathers did believe in a creator.
Yes, but why should atheist Americans be excluded from pledging allegiance to their country?
No as an American you have to pledge allegiance to the country
and flag. And currently to God first. This is wrong, you might as well ban atheists from joining the army; or government or being American altogether. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance]]
In the contrary, the phrase was added during the 1950s to fight the Atheist. Atheism is/was associated with communism. Since this nation is a democratic nation, they did it protect the nation identity. If we go back to history, the US core principles are base on a supreme deity. The words were added to either force atheist, polytheistic, to convert to the dominant religion, which is Christianity, or to exclude them out. ------Mando 103
In addition, some of the founding fathers did not believe in a god. While most were Christians, believing in the divinity of Christ, some were deists, believing in a "watchmaker god" who created the universe but did not involve himself in its affairs, and a few, including Thomas Jefferson, are now widely believe by scholars to have been atheists.
Its not a prayer.
I agree that state and religion should be separate, but having the words under god does not make it prayer. The word God does not point to a specific religion
The mentioning of God shows respect for different religions, different Christian sects, and non Judeo - Christian religions, Muslims, Jews, Hindu people and Native peoples.
The fact that the phrase,"one nation under God" mentions everyone that believes in a Creator does not exclude those that do not believe in one. It was intentionally put there, after all to anounce that we are all united, here,under one flag, in this Nation.
It was obviously never meant to offend atheists. If atheists were offended then, (when it was added, around 1940s) they should have said something then.
If it offends atheists they should refrain from saying the phrase. It is easy to solve this problem. Atheists: say the Pledge, just dont say the phrase"under god".
The American pledge of allegiance is not a prayer. The words “under god” were added as a form of respect to our nation. Atheists do not have to recite the pledge of allegiance if they don’t want to, or engage in any religious practice of which they disapprove. "Under God is not a prayer, nor an endorsement of any religion reciting the Pledge is a patriotic exercise the country has is not a religious one. “ Congress is permitted to add the words “under God” to government materials because the phrase doesn’t “establish” any specific religion” (undergodprocon.org). The majority of Americans want to preserve the nation pledge, which represents our loyalty and devotion to this country. Our American pledge simply emphasizes freedom and unity.
That is not the point.
The point is if Americans are free to believe/do/roam as they wish; then why should atheist Americans be forced to say "one nation under God": when they do not believe in a creator?
This excludes atheists from being American by saying that Americans are united as a nation under God rather than simply united despite their differences.
The common belief in God in America is no longer relevant in our times and should thus no longer be treated as the bond that unites America.
The "unity" ends if Atheists have a different pledge.
yes, but the word "under god" violates the first amendment, which is freedom of religion. Jon Carroll, from The San Francisco Chronicle, wrote " As a matter of common sensible and obvious. Under God' is intrusive and unnecessary in a pledge of patriotism; we're not speaking as believers; we are speaking as citizens" (Carroll). The word forces an individual to praise some form of a divine creator, god or what ever you want to call it. The phrase limits a citizen freedom to choose what religion he or she wants to be part of.---Mando 103
It was not written to offend anyone.
First of all the pledge was never written in order to offend anyone. During the Soviet Union Era, the people of the US were afraid, much like when 9/11 occured. So, just like during 9/11, people needed something to uplift them and unite them. During the 1950s, inserting the words "under God" provided that comfort and sense of safety, that the people needed. As we have seen recently (9/11), unity is powerful and gives strength to our people in times of hardship.
Issacson writes "it is probable, however that they would have disapproved of people on either side who used the Lord's name or Ten commandments as away to divide Americans rather than as a way to unite them"
Exactly what this writer states supports this quote the pledge should be left alone it was not meant to separate Americans it was meant to unite all nations. If the founding fathers and editors of the constitution and the pledge knew that this "one nation under god " statement wad going to bring revival and separate people in general maybe this addition to the pledge would have never appear.
It doesn't matter;
it offends people now.
Remember when the star trek intro was changed to say one instead of man as in the original?
obviously "going where no man has one before" wasn't "meant" to offend anyone; but gender neutrality became important and desirable as times changed.
The pledge needs an update according to the needs of the times.
The need of unity is not met when/where atheists are not included
or are being told to recite a different pledge from their fellow Americans.
Its purpose is not for worship.
The words "under God" does not imply that you believe in God. The purpose of the pledge is not so that people can worship or pray but it is a way to express patriotism. Reciting the pledge is just a way to show respect. Reciting it does not declare one's religion or declare their belief in God or not.
It says "one nation under god " it's not specific toward what god there are many types of gods my god can be budah yet others god can be Jesus. Still when pledging to the flag we are not praying we are pledging honoring the flag of the United States.
Saying that we are united under god is the same as as saying we all believe in God.
It 'does' declare allegiance to God and Country.
one is patriotic if one alleges loyalty to one's nation; the god-requirement is void.
The words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is simply the protection of the Divine.
Most people, Atheists, say our founding fathers wanted nothing to do with religion. That is not completely true; Benjamin Franklin proposed to pray before their labors for guidance. It was the protection of the Divine he was looking for, along with the best for his country.
According to In: Law and Legal Issues, “When did they add under god in the pledge of allegiance?”--
“The phrase "under god" was added to the Pledge in 1954 by President Eisenhower, he said, after adding these words, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be country's most powerful resource in peace and war."
America has a history of religious faith, religion is not going any where. Today the american citizens have the right not to have faith in nothing--if that is what they choose. President Eisenhower added the words in good faith, today the words want to be removed in for a lesser reason.
Never did I say the founding fathers wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. In Gary Goshgarian and Kathleen Krueger's book "Dialogues An Argument Rhetoric and Reader" in Chapter 13 (pg. 574 -line 10) it says: "When Benjamin Franklin proposed during the Constitutional Convention that the founders begin each day of their labors with a prayer to God for guidance, his suggestion was defeated." All I said is most Atheists say "Not even our founding fathers wanted anything to do with religion." Benjamin Franklin obviously did. He wanted the best for his country, who doesn't?
I understand our founding fathers were long gone before the line was inserted in the pledge and had nothing to do with inserting the line. After all, even you got that. Right?
yes leave it
When this was added it was with the intenions of bringing people together during times when people live with fear in their everyday lives and it worked out really good since no one brought it up. In 2001 when we suffered one of the worst attacks this country has ever receive no one ever said anything when on tv and radio commercials on stickers the words it read “in god we trust ” or even worse the commercials on tv had an American flag and in between the 13 red and white stripes id read in big blue letters “in god we trust ” no one ever said anything about it. So its ok to refer to god when America its hurting but not on our everyday lives?
The founding fathers did not put the line in the pledge; it was inserted in 1954.
So, Ben was not inserting this in the pledge to protect the divine. This line was only put in long after he died.
Really, the founding fathers have nothing at all to do with this.
Professor Douglas W. Kmiec of Pepperdine University - School of Law, “Oh God! Can I Say that in Public?”
“Pledge of Allegiance cannot contain the words "under God." The dissent in that case correctly recognized that the words of the pledge are not prayer and, thus, not unconstitutional. The majority opinion, on the other hand, creates bias against religion and turns the First Amendment on its head. However, legislative history reveals that the addition of "under God" to the pledge was done in an effort to prevent the expansion of government and denial of civil liberties. "Anchoring basic rights upon a metaphysical source is very much part of that structural separation [between church and state], for without God, the law is invited to become God" (Kmiec).
"In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
Bellamy's(original author of the pledge) granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there."-[[http://www.oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm]]
How/when did adding under God t the pledge help in the expansion of civil liberties? Is there any evidence of this?
Yes, we must separate God from the state and the argument on the left states that the best way to do this is to include him in the state???
The best way for any rational/logical/stable-minded person to separate something from another is to exclude the thing.
That is a secular society/state/govt. does not interfere with nor include the name of God in its dictum. Unless it is not secular.
Taking the phrase out will cause conflict, leave it.
The U.S. troops fight together no matter what name they call God or what creator they praise. The troops understand the fact that they are still one nation united with liberty. =)
Pretty week point there. It will cause more conflict than the one we are having now. Which is debating on taking out or leaving the line.
Doing away with the line will not reslove conflict. There are more religious people than there are atheists. Taking the line out will spark some sort of religious war.
I understand that Atheists do not believe in a higher being. The point that needs to be understood is that U.S. troops still stand together even if they believe in some higher being or not. They are still indivisible. So why cause separation of people. By saying "under God" it opens up a variety of certain higher beings a that people believe in. Yes, the word "God" goes for a certain religion, but we understand that the word is a higher being. The phrase isin't meant to divide Americans, but unite them.
There already is conflict on the issue. We're debating it aren't we?
the best way to remove conflict is to resolve the issue by doing away with the line altogether.
P.O.I :Atheists don't believe in a creator.
Somebody lost to the point of this; entirely.
Not a secular government.
"Secular Government" by Stan and Jonathan. On April 20, 2010.
"Further, the vast majority of government has religious connections. No, I'm not talking about "In God We Trust" on our coins or "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm talking about things like the crime of murder which has been labeled a crime because of the Judeo-Christian ethic that Man was made in God's image. Other cultures don't share the same criminal code. But because of religious perceptions, many of our laws are crafted to reflect those perceptions. Our rights, in fact, were defended by the Bill of Rights because of the belief in a Creator who endowed them.
Eliminate religion from government and things will need to change if we are going to be consistent. Obviously "Under God" and "In God We Trust" have to go. All trappings of religion would need to follow. No congressional prayer. Holidays are gone, at least as far as the ones that have religious links. Many government entities close for Christmas, Thanksgiving, Good Friday, and more. Martin Luther King Day celebrates a man whose vision of racial equality was formed by his understanding of Christianity. That had better go. No member of the government would be allowed to vote his conscience if it was informed by religion. That, I suppose, would require thought police of some sort. Of course, some things would get easier. Defending human life would become a far lower priority. That's a religious value completely without basis in an irreligious government. Aiding others in crisis would stop. I mean, clearly it hasn't gotten us any allies for our generosity around the world, so what secular reason would there be to keep it up? Health care could go. Medicare and social security could be terminated. Taking care of people is primarily a religious notion. Oh, sure, some misguided anti-religious people care for others as well, but on what basis? Probably some leftover religious influence. Churches would lose their tax-free status. The concept of personal freedom would become harder to defend. (After all, we just eliminated our lawmakers' rights to vote their conscience, right?) The military could eliminate chaplains. Well, all chaplains related to anything government could go. Judges would stop sentencing alcoholics to AA. And on it goes. You see, religion has its fingers in everything. They would take quite a bit of prying to get out.
The First Amendment says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." (For those sad Americans who don't understand that "respecting" in that sentence is not about "no law showing respect to", it actually means "no law in relation to".) The goal, as it turns out, of a genuinely secular government, is to outlaw religion. If, for instance, I was in government work and my beliefs mandate that I live my life by certain principles (as they do), this secularization would not allow me to freely exercise my religion. It would mandate that no one in government could freely exercise their religion. The positive values that religion offers would be erased from government, and government would become a frightening thing -- more than it is today. And what it is today is a product of some 50 years of the secularization of government. Are we sure we want to go that way?" (Stan and Jonathan).
All cultures say/deem murder as wrong. The Judeo-Islamic-Christian punishment for murder not forgiven is death.
A number of states in America do not award capital punishment but life imprisonment to those found guilty of murder.
Laws differ from state to state and as such have no religious bearing/inclination.
Vague reference to God
“ Congress is permitted to add the words “under God” to government materials because the phrase doesn’t “establish” any specific religion” (ProCon.org). The phrase “under god is vague in reference to a denomination. The phrase isn’t a preference over a religion, which the government is really not allowed to do. Under The Free Exercise Clause “Americans are (allowed) to Pledge to a nation under any “God” they choose, or to not use any such words at all” (ProCon)
• The Pledge of Allegiance does not say under a specific God. By far, I have not heard someone one say the “one nation under Buddha” or “one nation under Jesus Christ.” There are a lot of different religions and sects, along with their distinct gods. “God” was used as a universal name to include everyone’s different god. I believe in separation of church and state, nevertheless we all believe in a God or “something” such as science or man. Saying the Pledge of Allegiance is not a religious practice, neither was it made to offend anyone. It is a demonstration of respect for ones nation. Atheists should not feel they are excluded from reciting the pledge. On the contrary, Atheists can demonstrate their love and affection for our nation by excluding “under God” as the recite the pledge
Atheists do not believe in a creator/God (vague or specific).
I think the people on the pink side of this debate need to acknowledge this fact.
Vero103- In reference to what Joe says about the vagueness of a deity in the phrase "under god" I believe that he is entirely missing the point. In the pledge of allegiance it is written to say "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation, under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all"
First off the pledge is a vow ; Secondly there are many religions such as Scientology and atheists who do not believe in a supreme being. The people who urge the public that saying"under god" is okay and thus should not feel excluded are incorrect. They need to see it from other side if someone changed the pledge to state "Under the Goddess" to fit a Wiccan perspective it would be called blasphemy therefore making the pledge religion based.
The founding fathers religious though they might have been, knew that they came to the New World in search of religious freedom and thats why they made government and religion separate. We cannot as a country chose to uphold the constitution whenever it fits our views exclusively. The phrase "under god" was what was in trend in the 50's and because of a craze sweeping the nation Government who should have been upholding the constitution let themselves get caught up in it. Obviously its a clear clear violation and should be restored to the pre-war version
"Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion"
"U.S Constitution protects freedom of religion and not freedom from religion" (ProCon.org). We are free to practice religion, not from religion at all. Eradicating religion goes against "The Free Exercise Clause", which states that "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". The phrase is a neutral and doesn' t affect anyone religious or non religious. The religious are protected by "The Free Exercise Caluse" and the non religious by the "The Establishment Clause". "Americans are (allowed) to Pledge to a nation under any "God" they choose, or to not use any such words at all" (ProCon.org). Also there are more references to god in the currency, U.S codes, courts and Presidential oaths. References to god is acknowledgement that America is united under whatever higher belief there is.
Freedom to believe is also the freedom not to. Otherwise you wouldn't be free but forced to believe.
Atheists believe there's no God. The pledge trounces their belief in no god whatsoever.
Vero103- The U.S Government is set up so that the people are protected from tyranny and there are checks and balances in place so that one may not take over the other. In the Constitution itself it says "the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation. to support this constitution; but no RELIGIOUS TEST shall ever be required to any officer or public trust under the Unites States." why is it okay to violate its purpose? The first amendment states that "CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press; or the right of the people to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances" The United States Congress VIOLATED this amendment in inserting under god because it makes the pledge a vow with respect to a religious figure.
leave the phrase "Under God"
The pledge was written many years ago and by erasing this phrase it will erase the United States history and patriotic side. “Under God” is not a religious prayer that initiates people to believe in it.
The American Pledge of Allegiance could express patriotism without including any faith. It would not show any disrespect by removing the phrase “one nation under God” because its meaning would remain the same. If reciting it does not declare a person’s religion, then there is no need for it to be included. By having that phrase, it is endorsing faith to people.
The phrase is not offensive
American Atheists have the right to say Pledge of allegiance omitting the word god. Regardless of whether you are an Atheist or do not believe in the phrase you should still say the pledge of allegiance out of respect for our nations flag. It is true that American Atheists do not qualify as unpatriotic but the pledge is more of a historic expression rather than a religious one therefore, atheists should not take offense to the phrase.
the phrase "one nation under god" was added in 1954, before the add, the pledge did not offend anybody. first amendment give the people the right to follow and belief in any religion and that give them the right to raised their kids with those views. public schools forces kids to recite the pledge of allegiance even though there suppose to be a separation of religion and state in the public school. it should be taken out because not everyone believes in one god or god at all.
The word god is symbolic to the faith of a nation
The phrase “one nation under god” should be included in the Pledge of Allegiance for the reason that the pledge is symbolizing an oath. The word god is symbolic to the faith of a nation. During the 1950’s our nation was in need of unity as a result the Pledge of Allegiance was re-written and the word god was added. Nevertheless, the word god does not refer to a specific god nor does it mention a specific religion. In fact, the pledge is a celebration of all religions because aside from fact that each religion has its own god the one thing everyone has in common is the belief of a creator. It is necessary to have faith in a higher being It is wrong to call Pledge of Allegiance a prayer because the phrase was added in order to demonstrate America’s patriotism for its country.
Leave the pledge alone. Changing or habits would change everything we would have to learn a new pledge. In elemetary they teach us the pledge so that later in life we can have a perspective on life and develop beliefs.
Yes the constitution does state freedom of religion which means one can choose whom to pray upon. Still the word "god " is a universal term so leave the pledge.
dude the phrase "one nation under god" is already include. It was added in 1954 when the country was in a state of terror and thought nuclear warfare might be possible. America is a country of many beliefs and that includes atheist in which they don't believe in a god. so you must be tolerate of their beliefs and respect them. that our first amendment right freedom of religion.
Leaving the controversy as it is would just help out in keeping the conversation going. Now if we take out the phrase under god it would be takin out our habits and beliefs. We are already used to saying it why change it. Respect has a lot to do with or flag if we respect one certain type of believers now we would be stating we don't believe in god if we take it out prefering atheist then a general population of believers such as buddist, Christians, Catholics, etc. Changing it would cause more controversy.
we should get rid of the phrase, “one nation under God”, because its unconstitutionally, freedom of religion is the first amendment to the constitution. Another more logical reason is that the phrase was added in 1954 when the public was in a state of panic because the events of world war 2 and the possibilities of nuclear war.
When the pledge of allegiance is said it is patriotic even when the national anthym is said we see the passion of all Americans so see the pledge as unity not as a way to divide the population. This pledge should be left alone instead of thinking negative of these words "one nation under God" we should think positive and instead of atheist being offend maybe they should respect the history of the united states and understand that little by little this country has wanted to seek relief and hope from something other than the laws of the country something that might be more powerful. The word god is unviersal to all to me he's Jesus to others he's buddah to another human being he can maybe be another saint either way this pledge has to stay it should be respected.
You're just rambling. While I like your think positive attitude you're not addressing the point, you are just asserting that it should be left alone and giving me strategies for coping with that and making something positive out of it. Sorry but this is a non point.
Take it out
it is offensive to American atheists and being atheist doesn't qualify as being unpatriotic or un-American.
Also, your argument seems to be 'well most people don't agree so what's the point in trying to change anything'. That's a terrible argument - if it held any weight at all it could be used to justify anything from slavery through apartheid and to deny rights to women and gays. Generally overturning oppression DOES involve swimming against the tide; it is hard but it needs to be done.
America is a country of many faiths and religions. a country in which the dominant opinion over rules common sense. America is a countries ruled by the dominant religion which is Christianity. presidents, senator, and congressman are involved in that religion and belief that there is a god. its very unlikely that the pledge of allegiance is going to change, the majority wants it to remain the same because the majority beliefs theres a god.
Only put in "under God" in 1954 because of the war against famously 'atheist' Communists
"composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892. The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954. The Pledge is predominantly sworn by children in public schools in response to state laws requiring the Pledge to be offered. Congressional sessions open with the swearing of the Pledge, as do government meetings at local levels, meetings held by the Knights of Columbus, Royal Rangers, Boy Scouts of America, Fraternal Order of Eagles, Freemasons, Toastmasters International and their concordant bodies, other organizations, and many sporting events.
The current version of the Pledge of Allegiance reads: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.''- [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance]]
God was not mentioned by the founding fathers and the pledge has already been changed 4 times; changing it once again to include atheists as part of the American populous shouldn't be a problem. However excluding American atheists from the pledge because of a still-burning hatred for the Reds/'Commi's is unacceptable.
God is American and it is un-American to leave God out.
Hollywood wouldn't be producing X-mas movies with an almost entirely Jewish cast every year if God wasn't.
Next thing you know cowboy images will be offensive.
God has nothing to do with patriotism.
We are a country of many religion and races that ideally live among each other in relative peace. Sure the ignorant can hold prejudice against others for something as ridiculous as being left-handed, however we have seen consequences to such discrimination and for the most part it is not encouraged by society. So why is a pledge to our country not only in favor of certain religions, but completely exclude the others? This is wrong, and everything in our nation’s history has taught us that discrimination and the exclusion of any person is unlawful.
the cross on the flag,
the founding fathers were all free masons: believers in a creator. The British crusades resonate deeply in American history.
American patriotism is full of historical cross/jesus/prayer references.
American wars were/are all about the merge of patriotism with faith. Be it the civil war, the world wars and the cold war(the latter not technically being a war). [[http://teetee199thlibgodandcountry49.webs.com/a20GOD20AND20COUNTRY_mgban2-1.jpg]]
. The word “under god” were added as respect, it was expressed as patriotism, even with out the word “under god”.
the phrase "under God" should not be included
Including the phrase “under God” implies that Americans must believe in a creator. It does not provide comfort and unity because not all citizens believe in God. it is dividing instead of uniting people, as the pledge is not respecting those who disagree with the faiths it is endorsing.
Citizens of America should be free to choose whatever they believe in. They should not be excluded only because their belief system does not include a deity.
Bottom-line: Take 'under God' out because it is unconstitutional.
people do decide what they believe in. there is not one line in the pledge of allegiance that says that you must follow a certain religion. religion does not divide anyone. religion was made to bring people together. it took more than 50 years for that specific phrase no be notice and that just comes to prove that believers and none believers do not mind it
The phrase "under God" is not uniting people.
Many individuals in the United States come from different cultures; therefore they do not share the same religious beliefs. Also atheists find it inequitable to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. By including the phrase “one nation under God” in the pledge, it is forcing people to have a religion. They have no other alternative but to agree with what the pledge has included. It is unconstitutional though, because there has to be a separation between church and state. It is not creating unity, but a division among the people.
The word god is used in a general sense and the doc. does not specify what god you should believe in.
Every religion has a God or non-God; Atheists can think of God as science or nature; it is really semantics that people are making issue with.
It doesn't force people to have a religion. In baseball games or big occasions, people stand for the pledge. Certain people don't say the pledge or the phrase "one nation under god", but they do stand to respect the flag and America. As I said in an earlier arguement; True!.....they do not share the same religious beliefs but American troops do stand and fight together no matter what name they call God
I totally agree when you talk about atheists and I agree with you but if they were really so concern about god in the pledge then they also should of said something when after 9/11 the phrase in god we trust became so popular. During that time people became very united and that was the intentions of the supreme court when they added this the word “god” in the pledge.
Who is really saying the Pledge of Allegiance?
The Pledge of Allegiance is required for all children of ages 4-11 to say it word for word, everyday. When reaching the junior high level, it is then only required to stand and repeat this pledge on assembly days. Those children who do not wish to stand and regurgitate the pledge are scolded and forced to regardless of reasoning. Some of these children are not being raised to believe in god, which is a parents right, and it is the parents who are being undermined by the school system. This has nothing to do with founding fathers or patriotism when it is the children who say this pledge about a thousand more times than adults. As adults, we should have a say in keeping education of our children separate from religion, as this can create prejudice and discrimination at an early age.
Atheist parents tend to be finicky about what their kids say in school. Just as creationist parents would not be happy with their children reciting "there is no God"; atheist parents do not want their progeny saying there is.
As a child I did understand that God is the creator of all things; do not undermine the intelligence of children. If atheist/agnostic parents think that God is a lie; they shouldn't be happy about their
children being taught to lie in school.
True; children are told to repeat the pledge but most of them don’t know even know what they are saying. They are innocent and not all children know what the pledge means. They don’t take into account what it means or if they believe what they are reciting.
When they are older do they finally realize the pledge’s meaning and words. Reciting the pledge is teaching them to say something united with others their own age. When they say it they are saying it united and it also disciplines them.
Mostly when they don’t want to do it is because they got lazy or tired of repeating something over and over, not because it doesn’t agree with their religion or something. Saying the pledge isn’t making them have a religion but teaching them something about America. The pledge isn’t making anybody have a certain religion and religion isn’t mixed with education just because of two words.
Just remember your childhood, did you know what you were saying when you repeated the pledge? Did you know what it meant?
Children are required in school to show respect to their peer’s. The students by standing up they are showing respect to our country and the heroes who fought for everyone rights. Also, develops some type of patriotism which is very needed in today's society. Children need to know the importance of our country and what people did to make this the country what it is today. The word “under god” is not promoting any religion reciting the Pledge is a patriotic exercise the United States has is not a religious one. Since an early age children are taught about the history of our country which is very important to know and understand. Our heroes did everything to fight for our freedom and rights. Our history is what makes us unique and is important to learn our history because we will know what our people when through to fight for this country. The books are based on facts and there are no lies when we have facts and grounds from the people that were there and book to back the true. mickey-mary
violates the constitution
It violates the first amendment "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" The pledge of allegiance indicates that we honor god for we are "one nation under god" I believe that times have changed and people today are no longer as religious as they use to be, so people do have a right to be offended by the phrase. If there is supposed be a separation between church and state, stating that were are one nation under god is not necessary and it clearly violates the constitution!!
If it violated the First Amendment they wouldn't have made it
How does it express patriotism?
The orinigal pledge was intended to express patriotism to our country, it is unnecessary to acknoledge god at the same time we are expressing patriotism it makes no sense. There are many people who have done many great things for our country whether they believe in god or not.
Christainaity is the most practiced religion in the USA.
The current pledge may no apply to everyone
We live in a country with a great diversity of people, we should take everyone into consideration. The pledge of allegiance should be able to be equally expressed by everyone, it is unfair that who ever does not believe in god has to stay quiet while the words under god are being said. The pledge it self sais "with liberty and justice for all" so who are they referring to when they say justice? only the believers? I thought justice was including all Americans, atheist citizens too!!
Yes America is probably the most diverse country in the world and therefore the word god was use so you decide who your god or creator is. And if the none believers (atheist) really feel like that about the word god why didn’t they brought up when the twin towers were hit? Was it because they were also trusting in god like everyone else ? times like those its what bring people together and that was exactly why it was added.
Under God proclaims Christianity
Most Religions that proclaim the word GOD are Christian-based like Catholicism, Christianity, Protestant, Baptists, ect. That makes it a clear violation of the first amendment " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" by congress including the phrase under god in the pledge they have made a law with respect to establishing religion for the entire country; in the disguise of a pledge to the country,and by extension a religion that is mainstream in america that might include a majority of the population but is still clearly violating the first amendment.
In addition, there are beliefs systems that worship more than one God, or none at all. Saying the "pledge of allegiance" to a god that you don't believe in, in school, at public functions, in government proceedings, etc is tantamount to forcing people to pledge against their religious (or non-religious) beliefs.
the word god is a general word
The founding fathers created this nation with a creator in mind and most of the founding fathers were freemasons and the catholic church did not approve of them. So how can the the word god be address as someone that does not approve of them. The word god is a general use for any religions leader or creator and just because the majority of people in the Unites States believe in jesus chirst it does not mean it’s being use in that way
Separation of Church and State
It is up to an individual whether or not to practice any religion at all. In putting the words GOD in the pledge we have changed the statement from a vow to a prayer. This country does not teach religions in public schools because they are government founded and thus would be in violation of the separation of church and state. However, in teaching our school age children the pledge we are teaching them to commend this country to GOD that makes the pledge a prayer. which have been outlawed in public school systems. That doesn't mean do not teach patriotism, it just means that for the pledge to be correctly written it needs to be reinstated to its original form not the one we have which came about in the 1950's after a Red scare.
The fact that the word god its in the pledge of allegiance does not mean you have to believe in any religion at all. The phrase was added with an intention of bringing people together and as a form of respect to the founding fathers but never to insult or brake any amendments. When has god been use in a wrongfully way? If you teach your children to belive in a specific god then he is going to refer to that god every time s/he uses or hears that word. People needs to start making such a big deal out of nothing because at the end of the day if this really was to get voted on and the majority of people are Christians what do you think its gonna happen ?
God doesn't exist.
It's a pretty whacked out notion with absolutely no evidence to back it up. Not only that it's fundamentally self inconsistent [[http://richardathome.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/quote-of-the-day-is-god/]].
Those that argue it's a moot point as there is no evidence to refute the existence of god need to accept that the burden of proof is on them for making such far fetched assertions in the first place. If you make a ludicrous claim it's on you to prove it, not me to disprove it.
Mentioning god in the pledge is just pandering to fundamentalist cult members who oughtn't be encouraged in their superstition.
What do you think?