Modified:
03 Jan 2010
by Dhc

Vote totals:

Yes:

100%

No:

0%

Neutral:

0%

 
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DEBATE: WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE ON THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE EXECUTED IN CHINA RATHER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL BRITISH CITIZEN.

There may well be good reasons for why the Chinese government has chosen to ignore the representations of the British government for Akmal Shaikh. In the case of the British Government it has to act in this case because Akmal was a British citizen. However China would probably be more cooperative, or at least more inclined to listen if we did not rave about one person and attempt to show the holes in their legal system. Instead we should be working with China to improve its legal system and at the same time reduce the number of executions.





WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE ON THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE EXECUTED IN CHINA RATHER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL BRITISH CITIZEN.


There is a lack of transparency with Chinese death penalty charges


It is hard for anyone to quantify the problem of Chinese executions as the Government statistics are shrowded in mystery. It is this mystery that our government need to uncover in order to get a proper veiw on the extent of the execution problem in China. Until we have these figures we are not qualified to say whether China is a prolific executioner or is merely administering a proper legal punishment proportionate to public opinion. It is this transparency that our Government need to attain from China in order so that China can develop itself. Until such statistic are released to the public, we will not know what the public feeling on the matter is. Once released, th Chinese will either be outraged or pleased, and actions can be taken in accordanc to that veiw. This is the extent to which Britain should intervene.



WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE ON THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE EXECUTED IN CHINA RATHER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL BRITISH CITIZEN.


China is reveiwing its death penalty on its own


The international community has an important role to play in helping China The issue which should really be addressed is whether the legal system in China is adequate. Does the legal process have the necessary safeguards, are the rights of the defendant looked after, are the judges independent, is the rule of law adhered to? The cases where the death penalty is used should be the top priority as that is the most severe penalty.

The Supreme People’s Court has undeniably been playing a greater role recently, which is an important step. However, it needs support. Exact statistics on the numbers of executions per year are still not available. Why is this?

The international community is in a better position to assess whether the legal process is adequate than the citizens of China and Britain and the international community should use this opportunity to monitor China’s progress and ensure that true progress is being made, not mere tokenism. This execution has highlighted the necessity to monitor China’s trial process as it was unclear whether the suffered mental disability correctly considered.

A paper was published by the Supreme People’s Court entitled the ‘Second Five Year Reform Program for the People’s Courts (2004-2008) in 2005 containing many goals for reform. With the awareness of the international community raised due to the recent execution, China may be subjected to greater international scrutiny and be held more accountable for achieving those goals that it would have been prior to this execution.

Death sentences were reduced by 30% from 2006 to 2007,[1] this was a result of China making legislative change in order to prevent erroneous death penalty charges. The Supreme Court was given its power back regarding giving its final approval to death sentences. Between 2006-2007 the Supreme Court rejected 15% of death penalty charges for lack of evidence.[2] With the Chinese making such chnages on their own, there is no need for the British Government to interfere. Our government have more pressing national issues to deal with before it starts interfering elsewhere.
  1. ^ Kadis Scott, Santa Clara University, September 2009
  2. ^ Antoaneta Bezlova, Asian Times, June 2008


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE ON THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE EXECUTED IN CHINA RATHER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL BRITISH CITIZEN.


we should not impose our view of justice on other nations


The concept of human rights has developed across the world in recognition of the fact that governments do not always protect citizens which they apparently serve. The US Bill of Rights was created to avoid tyranny and the European Convention on Human Rights was born out of the atrocities of World War II. It is not, therefore, only Britain who believes that individuals should be treated in a certain way in order to achieve justice and although the actual mechanics of trials may differ in countries across the world concepts such as the rule of law are widely recognised in the West. Sometimes it is necessary for other countries, bodies or supranational organisations to step-in in order to protect citizens of other countries.

It is possible that prior to a British citizen being executed the West had not been particularly concerned with the Chinese legal system, but not it has been altered to the situation it is perfectly legitimate to use that as a catalyst for focusing on execution in China, what ever the nationality of the person so sentenced.

It is simply not democratic for one nation to say to another that the way they administer their legal system is wrong. It is bullish to swagger to another nation claiming that they are not administering the right concept of justice.

Everyone's view on justice is different. We should not seek to change the Chinese justice system if that is what the Chinese population believe in. Who is to say that the British view on justice is correct? No one can claim to be moral authority, therefore the British government should not seek to change the Chinese legal system but concentrate on their own citizens.

Also Britain's involvement in the Chinese legal system with the sole pretext that they noticed/cared-for the loopholes within the system only when a British person was not given justice is just the same as concentrating on that citizen without meddling with China's sovereignty.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE ON THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE EXECUTED IN CHINA RATHER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL BRITISH CITIZEN.


China has a different cultural veiw on punishment


Whilst culturally China might have a different view on punishment that view should still be re-examined to establish if the view is based on false premises. The Cultural Revolution of 1966-1976 may have resulted in the ‘people’s will’, it would, however, be wrong to conclude from that that no changes to the legal system should ever be made again. Lessons will have been learnt from that experience about what to do and what not to do. Moreover, popular will should not necessarily be the only factor to take into account. What must instead be created is a system which is fair and transparent in its use of the death penalty which due to it’s transparency can also be acceptable to the general population. It would be wrong for the whole of China to be held ransom.

Further the Chinese legal system is arguably less developed that that of other countries and it is the duty of other countries to share knowledge and experience in order to help China develop its legal system and assist the Supreme People’s Court in its final approval on death penalties.

The public of China historically favour harsher punishments. When the legal system was loosened in the late 1960's to early 1970's, gangs went around administering the 'people's will'/vigilante-justice.

This involved public reprisal of teachers and service men. This resulted in many more executions than what the legal system would have lead to. Either China will return to her old ways of death-by-martial-arts or capital punishment would/should be exercised officially.

Therefore, the British government should not try to impose their views onto the Chinese public as this could have a worse outcome.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE ON THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE EXECUTED IN CHINA RATHER THAN AN INDIVIDUAL BRITISH CITIZEN.


Akmal is British


Crimes against humanity surpass borders/national-sovereignty.

China always gets away with all kinds of atrocities: Eating live-monkey-brains, devouring/hunting all sorts of endangered species, persecuting Uighurs(wee-gurs) on the basis of religion,persecuting monks, being the biggest polluter in the world etcetera.

It is about time somebody/Britain set China straight.

And should have only been tried on British terms,and thus have faced British law/punishment.

China made a huge error in judgment by giving a British man the death penalty.

What they do with their own people/citizens is their business but when another country's national/citizen/s is/are involved their behavior is inadmissible.

Especially, since Britain does NOT advocate capital punishment.

Counter: It is neither the responsibility nor the privilege of governments to boss governments of other countries around or to 'set them straight'.

Humanitarian-organizations, environmentalists, animal-rights-activists and other philanthropic authorities have that job. Governments can only bring light to the cause/s of these people/orgs and aid their efforts against international inhumanity.


What do you think?  Vote on this point below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No


Vote on the overall debate: We should focus more on the thousands who are executed in China rather than an individual British citizen.

What do you think?  Vote on this debate below.
Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
1. There is a lack of transparency with Chinese death penalty charges
# 1

It is hard for anyone to quantify the problem of Chinese executions as the Government statistics are shrowded in mystery. It is this mystery that our government need to uncover in order to get a proper veiw on the extent of the execution problem in China. Until we have these figures we are not qualified to say whether China is a prolific executioner or is merely administering a proper legal punishment proportionate to public opinion. It is this transparency that our Government need to attain from China in order so that China can develop itself. Until such statistic are released to the public, we will not know what the public feeling on the matter is. Once released, th Chinese will either be outraged or pleased, and actions can be taken in accordanc to that veiw. This is the extent to which Britain should intervene.

LLBlynch

|

12:20, 30 December 09

|

Karma Score: 2653



1. China is reveiwing its death penalty on its own
# 1

Death sentences were reduced by 30% from 2006 to 2007,[1] this was a result of China making legislative change in order to prevent erroneous death penalty charges. The Supreme Court was given its power back regarding giving its final approval to death sentences. Between 2006-2007 the Supreme Court rejected 15% of death penalty charges for lack of evidence.[2] With the Chinese making such chnages on their own, there is no need for the British Government to interfere. Our government have more pressing national issues to deal with before it starts interfering elsewhere.
  1. ^ Kadis Scott, Santa Clara University, September 2009
  2. ^ Antoaneta Bezlova, Asian Times, June 2008

LLBlynch

|

12:03, 30 December 09

|

Karma Score: 2653


# 2

The international community has an important role to play in helping China The issue which should really be addressed is whether the legal system in China is adequate. Does the legal process have the necessary safeguards, are the rights of the defendant looked after, are the judges independent, is the rule of law adhered to? The cases where the death penalty is used should be the top priority as that is the most severe penalty.

The Supreme People’s Court has undeniably been playing a greater role recently, which is an important step. However, it needs support. Exact statistics on the numbers of executions per year are still not available. Why is this?

The international community is in a better position to assess whether the legal process is adequate than the citizens of China and Britain and the international community should use this opportunity to monitor China’s progress and ensure that true progress is being made, not mere tokenism. This execution has highlighted the necessity to monitor China’s trial process as it was unclear whether the suffered mental disability correctly considered.

A paper was published by the Supreme People’s Court entitled the ‘Second Five Year Reform Program for the People’s Courts (2004-2008) in 2005 containing many goals for reform. With the awareness of the international community raised due to the recent execution, China may be subjected to greater international scrutiny and be held more accountable for achieving those goals that it would have been prior to this execution.

Orphelie French

|

19:45, 03 January 10

|

Karma Score: 16



2. we should not impose our view of justice on other nations
# 1

It is simply not democratic for one nation to say to another that the way they administer their legal system is wrong. It is bullish to swagger to another nation claiming that they are not administering the right concept of justice. Everyone's veiw on justice is different. We should not seek to change the Chinese justice system if that is what the Chinese population beleive in. Who is to say that the British veiw on justice is correct? No one can claim to be moral authority, therefore British government should not seek to change the Chinese legal system but concentrate on their own citezens.

LLBlynch

|

12:04, 30 December 09

|

Karma Score: 2653


# 2

The concept of human rights has developed across the world in recognition of the fact that governments do not always protect citizens which they apparently serve. The US Bill of Rights was created to avoid tyranny and the European Convention on Human Rights was born out of the atrocities of World War II. It is not, therefore, only Britain who believes that individuals should be treated in a certain way in order to achieve justice and although the actual mechanics of trials may differ in countries across the world concepts such as the rule of law are widely recognised in the West. Sometimes it is necessary for other countries, bodies or supranational organisations to step-in in order to protect citizens of other countries.

It is possible that prior to a British citizen being executed the West had not been particularly concerned with the Chinese legal system, but not it has been altered to the situation it is perfectly legitimate to use that as a catalyst for focusing on execution in China, what ever the nationality of the person so sentenced.

Orphelie French

|

19:28, 03 January 10

|

Karma Score: 16



3. China has a different cultural veiw on punishment
# 1

The public of China historically favour harsher punishments. When the legal system was loosened in the late 1960's to early 1970's, gangs wetn around administering the 'people's will'. This involved public reprisal of teachers and service men. This resulted in many more executions than what the legal system would have lead to. Therefore, the British government should not try to impose their veiws onto the Chinese public as this could have a worse outcome.

LLBlynch

|

12:04, 30 December 09

|

Karma Score: 2653


# 2

Whilst culturally China might have a different view on punishment that view should still be re-examined to establish if the view is based on false premises. The Cultural Revolution of 1966-1976 may have resulted in the ‘people’s will’, it would, however, be wrong to conclude from that that no changes to the legal system should ever be made again. Lessons will have been learnt from that experience about what to do and what not to do. Moreover, popular will should not necessarily be the only factor to take into account. What must instead be created is a system which is fair and transparent in its use of the death penalty which due to it’s transparency can also be acceptable to the general population. It would be wrong for the whole of China to be held ransom.

Further the Chinese legal system is arguably less developed that that of other countries and it is the duty of other countries to share knowledge and experience in order to help China develop its legal system and assist the Supreme People’s Court in its final approval on death penalties.

Orphelie French

|

19:37, 03 January 10

|

Karma Score: 16



4. Akmal is British
# 1

And should have only been tried on British terms, thus facing British punishment.

China made a huge error in judgment by giving a British man the death penalty.

What they do with their our people/citizens is their business but when another country's national/citizens are involved it is inadmissible.

Especially, when Britain does NOT advocate capital punishment.

NADIA999

|

04:53, 31 December 09

|

Karma Score: 5609


# 2

Crimes against humanity surpass borders/national-sovereignty.

China always gets away with all kinds of atrocities(eating live-monkey-brains, all sorts of endangered species, persecuting Uighurs(wee-gurs) on the basis of religion,persecuting monks, being the biggest polluter in the world etc)

It is about time somebody/Britain set China straight.

NADIA999

|

04:57, 31 December 09

|

Karma Score: 5609



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